2nd Generation S-series (1995-2005) Tech Discuss 2nd generation S-series (1995-2005) general tech topics here.

Starting Issue looking for help

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 06-14-2009, 09:53 AM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default Starting Issue looking for help ('00 4.3L)

Ok, I have a '00 S10 w/ a 4.3 v6.
I just re-did the head gaskets, and intake manifold gaskets, and got everything put back together. When I tried to start it I have all my lights, radio, everything as normal, and when I turn to the start position the auto-headlights even dim, but I get no cranking at all.
I put a bypass button in to the starter (I tested, wasn't getting voltage to the purple selonoid wire), and tried starting it that way, it cranked just fine, but at most I can get a faint sputter. I can hear the fuel pump coming on, I've tested the fuel pressure on the fuel line (58-65 lbs) I checked the wires on both sides of the injector plug harness to the fuse block on one end, and computer on the other, and all are good. I even checked the voltage across one set of pins when cranking it, and I'm getting a reading that seems to switch consistently from liek 0-5-12v.
I can get the vehicle to run for a few seconds if I spray a shot of carb cleaner into the intake, and it sounds perfectly fine, but that's it. It won't take off and idle on it's own.
I've replaced the fuel pressure regulator on the spider, but that hasn't seemed to make a difference. I'm down to thinking that the injection spider must be bad, but that doesn't explain the issue with the starter, and it's a rather expensive guess. I really want/need to get the vehicle going, but I don't have the money or patience to jsut throw parts at it till I get the right one.
Is there possibly some interlock on a sensor circiut or something that is locking it out? I'm at my witts end, anyone out there able to help?
Oh, btw, 127k milage or there abouts.

Thanks
 

Last edited by Wiredude; 06-19-2009 at 07:23 AM.
  #2  
Old 06-14-2009, 10:27 AM
rriddle3's Avatar
BF Guru
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth,Texas
Posts: 6,595
rriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond reputerriddle3 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Was it having this problem before you worked on it?
 
  #3  
Old 06-14-2009, 11:42 AM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default

No, was starting just fine, until the intake gasket blew out and it drowned itself in a coolant/oil mix. The thermostat had been sticking and I had just changed it, but I was still having temp issues, when it just died on me. Finding water in the oil, I figured head gaskets, and teh intake manifold gasket had to be replaced along the way. Though having taken it all apart, I think the intake gasket was the real culprit.
I'm pretty sure it drowned itself on the oil/coolant coming back up the breather system. I drained 4 gal out of the oil pan when I started working on it. plus there was some of that mixture in the cylinders when I took the heads off.
I'm fairly certain the issue I'm having is no fuel through the injectors, but it's the why that I'm trying to track down. I'm jsut not sure if the spider could have gone bad sitting on the work-bench while I was deeper in the motor
 

Last edited by Wiredude; 06-14-2009 at 11:46 AM.
  #4  
Old 06-14-2009, 06:17 PM
msfan324's Avatar
Beginning Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 23
msfan324 is on a distinguished road
Default Familiar situation

I just wanted to say I am in the middle of something very similar. I replaced my lower intake manifold gasket and after getting everything all back together it would crank but not start. After two different diagnosis of a bad PCM I have replaced the computer but still no start. Strange how taking it apart for a while causes it to longer start. Are you having any issues with the security light turning on the dash as a possible issue with passlock system?
 
  #5  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:08 PM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default

I didn't look specifically at the dash the last time, but I did before, If I remember from when that system acted up a while back, the security light flashes if that's what's engaging, and I haven't seen that happening.
 
  #6  
Old 06-17-2009, 02:39 PM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default

Anyone have any tips? I've read stuff here and there that maybe it's something with the crank position sensor, or perhaps the EGR valve or maybe even the MAF sensor (I did clean the MAF well with MAF cleaner before I put things back together).
I honestly don't mind so much doing the work, but I've just reached the end of my knowledge, and I don't want to keep just sort of guessing at it.
Does anyone know what sort of interlocks would be in the actual starter circuit? I tested for voltage at the relay socket in the fuse-block under the hood, and that appears to be switching properly, but is there somewhere else that I should look as well?
 
  #7  
Old 06-17-2009, 06:39 PM
swartlkk's Avatar
Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Waterloo, NY
Posts: 41,137
swartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The biggest issue that I see you having is that the starter is not engaging with the key in the start position. This is likely caused by a failed ignition switch. And this can cause the other symptoms you are experiencing as well. A failed ignition switch does not always trigger the security light.
 
  #8  
Old 06-18-2009, 09:44 AM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default

I tested the ignition the best way I knew how, I checked voltage at the socket for the relay marked as the "starter" and I'm getting a reading (12.4v) on what would be the "switching" leg of the relay when the key is turned into the 'start' position. I had assumed that from that reading, and from the auto headlights killing, radio shutting off, etc that the ignition switch was functioning properly. Are there multiple circuits running through the switch? Or is it one controlling several relays? I'm going to try to test more of the wiring tonight, to see if perhaps there is/are a broken wire(s) somewhere that I've missed.
 
  #9  
Old 06-18-2009, 06:03 PM
swartlkk's Avatar
Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Waterloo, NY
Posts: 41,137
swartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond reputeswartlkk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

There are 5 contacts for 5 different circuits inside the ignition switch.
 
  #10  
Old 06-19-2009, 06:44 AM
Wiredude's Avatar
Beginning Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irwin PA
Posts: 13
Wiredude is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, upon further inspection and investigation I think at least part of my problem may be a sticky relay. I had initially ruled out the relay because I had switched it with one of the other 2 with the same number (rear defrost, which I don't have in the vehicle, and the headlamp relay) and there was no change in response. But last night I decided to try a couple things, and when I manually jumped the relay contacts with a piece of wire, the starter kicked over. Of course, by this point the battery was too far worn down from previous attempts to actually attempt an actual start, so I threw the charger on it, and I'm going to go to the parts store, and back to try again after work this evening.
I have a partial wiring diagram of the engine performance circuits, and the Haynes manual, though the wiring diagram in the Haynes leaves something to be desired.
My next question is this. Is it possible my fuel issues are tied to this same relay?
 


Quick Reply: Starting Issue looking for help



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:35 PM.