Current All Aluminum Radiator Options?
#11
02-14-2019, 11:14 AM
When you install a two electric fan set up on a Blazer with the stock mechanical single cooling fan, it would seem you would have to have some elec. connection to interface with the engine cooling system to turn the elec. fans on and off. Is that correct ? How is it done ?
#12
02-16-2019, 03:56 PM
So after much research and calculating, I've learned that just about every aluminum radiator available for our Blazers (and perhaps most other vehicles) is made in China and sold under many different brands on Amazon and eBay.
I've also learned about the construction of aluminum radiators vs the older copper/brass radiators with which I am more familiar. With aluminum, the number of cores is not so important as much with copper radiators as that with aluminum the tubes can be much wider. It is the total surface area and airflow through the radiator that matters so that all things being equal, it is actually better to have fewer cores. Thus it is not enough to just count rows and say more is better. These links helped me understand this: http://www.griffinrad.com/tube.php, https://www.speedcooling.com/blog/page/2, Speed Cooling Blog | ENGINEERED COOLING PRODUCTS | Page 6). There is also this:
So after eliminating the many suspect radiators from consideration because they had questionable origins or with more cores than necessary, I narrowed my consideration to these four:
In addition to apparently being from quality manufacturers, these all would appear to have increased cooling capacity over OE style by virtue of having thicker cores and more tubes. The one I would guess would have the best cooling, by a large margin, is the one by Engineered Cooling Products. Unfortunately this has been discontinued. The other aluminum one I don't think is necessarily sold by Radiator Express so I'm not sure of its origin. However, in terms of size of the core and number of rows of tubes, the last two are potentially as good as or better than the Radiator Express one. The core thickness of the Radiator Express one is 1.25" whereas the Mishimoto and Keystone radiators are 1.375" thick. (The OE radiators have cores that are listed as either 15/16" or 1".) Also, the Mishimoto and Keystone radiators have 39 vs. the 33 rows as used in the Radiator Express one as counted from from top to bottom.
I suspect that the Keystone one, that appears to only be sold by Advance Car Parts (Car Quest), is a re-branded Mishimoto. With all that in mind, I'm thinking the Mishimoto is the one to get.
Does anyone have any experience with the Mishimoto ones?
I've also learned about the construction of aluminum radiators vs the older copper/brass radiators with which I am more familiar. With aluminum, the number of cores is not so important as much with copper radiators as that with aluminum the tubes can be much wider. It is the total surface area and airflow through the radiator that matters so that all things being equal, it is actually better to have fewer cores. Thus it is not enough to just count rows and say more is better. These links helped me understand this: http://www.griffinrad.com/tube.php, https://www.speedcooling.com/blog/page/2, Speed Cooling Blog | ENGINEERED COOLING PRODUCTS | Page 6). There is also this:
So after eliminating the many suspect radiators from consideration because they had questionable origins or with more cores than necessary, I narrowed my consideration to these four:
- 1999 CHEVROLET BLAZER - 4.3 liter V6 262CID RADIATOR ALL ALUMINUM 1 ROW, WITH 2 COOLERS
(https://www.radiatorexpress.com/prod...218111/1353619) - Chevy S10 1995 - 2004 Aluminum HD Radiator - 2-rows of 1.0" Cooling Tubes
(https://www.speedcooling.com/Chevy-S...ing-Tubes.html) - Mishimoto R1826-AT
(https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mio-r1826-at) - Keystone Collision Platinum Pro Radiator RAD1826
(https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...hTerm=radiator)
In addition to apparently being from quality manufacturers, these all would appear to have increased cooling capacity over OE style by virtue of having thicker cores and more tubes. The one I would guess would have the best cooling, by a large margin, is the one by Engineered Cooling Products. Unfortunately this has been discontinued. The other aluminum one I don't think is necessarily sold by Radiator Express so I'm not sure of its origin. However, in terms of size of the core and number of rows of tubes, the last two are potentially as good as or better than the Radiator Express one. The core thickness of the Radiator Express one is 1.25" whereas the Mishimoto and Keystone radiators are 1.375" thick. (The OE radiators have cores that are listed as either 15/16" or 1".) Also, the Mishimoto and Keystone radiators have 39 vs. the 33 rows as used in the Radiator Express one as counted from from top to bottom.
I suspect that the Keystone one, that appears to only be sold by Advance Car Parts (Car Quest), is a re-branded Mishimoto. With all that in mind, I'm thinking the Mishimoto is the one to get.
Does anyone have any experience with the Mishimoto ones?
#13
02-16-2019, 08:24 PM
Mishimoto appears privately held so there are no financials to look at for clues. But although they seem to do some actual R&D design/engineering work, they don't appear to do their own manufacturing either. There might well be some overlaps in their supply chains (in other words, made by or shared components from the same supplier(s)) but strictly speaking it's doubtful the Keystone is simply a "re-branded Mishimoto."
Despite being identically dimensioned as best I can tell, there's at least one difference. The fittings on the Mishimoto appear gold-toned (brass?) and the Keystone silver. Not that this makes a bunch of difference in performance or reliability necessarily, just pointing out there are differences beyond simple rebranding alone.
The Mishimoto has a limited lifetime warranty, the Keystone a 5-year. That would probably be the deciding factor for me in favor of the Mishimoto, especially since it's cheaper too.
Last edited by Rock18; 02-16-2019 at 08:33 PM.
#14
02-16-2019, 09:41 PM
Got curious so I did some digging. The brand reffered to as "Keystone Collision" on Autozone is as best as I can tell acutally Keystone Automotive Operations, Inc., is owned by LKQCorp, which is a distributor of parts but not really a manufacturer from looking at their 10K. Autozone does indeed appear to be a primary online retailer with the most web presence but much of their business appears to be commercial B2B (repair shops, fleets etc.) and regional retailers like A&A Auto Stores.
Mishimoto appears privately held so there are no financials to look at for clues. But although they seem to do some actual R&D design/engineering work, they don't appear to do their own manufacturing either. There might well be some overlaps in their supply chains (in other words, made by or shared components from the same supplier(s)) but strictly speaking it's doubtful the Keystone is simply a "re-branded Mishimoto."
Despite being identically dimensioned as best I can tell, there's at least one difference. The fittings on the Mishimoto appear gold-toned (brass?) and the Keystone silver. Not that this makes a bunch of difference in performance or reliability necessarily, just pointing out there are differences beyond simple rebranding alone.
The Mishimoto has a limited lifetime warranty, the Keystone a 5-year. That would probably be the deciding factor for me in favor of the Mishimoto, especially since it's cheaper too.
Mishimoto appears privately held so there are no financials to look at for clues. But although they seem to do some actual R&D design/engineering work, they don't appear to do their own manufacturing either. There might well be some overlaps in their supply chains (in other words, made by or shared components from the same supplier(s)) but strictly speaking it's doubtful the Keystone is simply a "re-branded Mishimoto."
Despite being identically dimensioned as best I can tell, there's at least one difference. The fittings on the Mishimoto appear gold-toned (brass?) and the Keystone silver. Not that this makes a bunch of difference in performance or reliability necessarily, just pointing out there are differences beyond simple rebranding alone.
The Mishimoto has a limited lifetime warranty, the Keystone a 5-year. That would probably be the deciding factor for me in favor of the Mishimoto, especially since it's cheaper too.
#15
02-18-2019, 01:36 PM
LOL on that video.
Yeah, I can say that from my experience, Chinese follow the same route no matter how big contract they get. The routine is : NO F* RETURNS. I support a client, who used to make a $100k deals and even then, they prefer to send someone to do fixes here in Poland than collecting back the crap they've produced.
On the other hand, I remember we had an electronic project once to be installed on board of a ship while her shipyard and getting our parts through the border via customs was enormously long and expensive. Even due to fact, the agency was in relation to the governing party (like every major business there). I take it that way - governing party doesn't want any goods to be imported and maximize the export. With no exceptions (including warranty cases).
Yeah, I can say that from my experience, Chinese follow the same route no matter how big contract they get. The routine is : NO F* RETURNS. I support a client, who used to make a $100k deals and even then, they prefer to send someone to do fixes here in Poland than collecting back the crap they've produced.
On the other hand, I remember we had an electronic project once to be installed on board of a ship while her shipyard and getting our parts through the border via customs was enormously long and expensive. Even due to fact, the agency was in relation to the governing party (like every major business there). I take it that way - governing party doesn't want any goods to be imported and maximize the export. With no exceptions (including warranty cases).
#16
02-18-2019, 04:44 PM
So regarding Radiator Express, I expressly asked them where their radiators are made the they avoided the question.
Me: "Where is this radiator made? SKU: 226401 Also what are the size of the core tubes. Thanks"
Radiator Express:
"Hello,
All of our parts meet and exceed the O.E.M. (original part) dimensions. Please call us directly
to speak to one of our knowledgeable sales representatives for price and availability.
Best Regards,
Radiator Express"
Me: "Where is this radiator made? SKU: 226401 Also what are the size of the core tubes. Thanks"
Radiator Express:
"Hello,
All of our parts meet and exceed the O.E.M. (original part) dimensions. Please call us directly
to speak to one of our knowledgeable sales representatives for price and availability.
Best Regards,
Radiator Express"
#17
02-22-2019, 08:23 PM
Update: I ordered the Mishimoto radiator from Jegs because after a bit of research it looked to have an even better warranty than the Keystone. Well it arrived damaged, FedEx really tossed it around with holes being made in the box by the water inlet and outlets. The overflow connection was broken off along with the "wings" for the drain spigot.
Perhaps worse was that the radiator that I was so happy to have found because it was advertised to have a thicker core of 1 3/8" turned out to have a standard 1" core. I actually had checked the Mishimoto.com website to double check so I thought this was good data. Guess not.
So now, I need to decide if I want to get a radiator from Autozone or O'Reilly's with the standard core of 1" or hope that the Keystone one actually has a thicker core for more cooling.
Ugh... I need a beer.
Perhaps worse was that the radiator that I was so happy to have found because it was advertised to have a thicker core of 1 3/8" turned out to have a standard 1" core. I actually had checked the Mishimoto.com website to double check so I thought this was good data. Guess not.
So now, I need to decide if I want to get a radiator from Autozone or O'Reilly's with the standard core of 1" or hope that the Keystone one actually has a thicker core for more cooling.
Ugh... I need a beer.
#18
02-23-2019, 03:35 AM
Oh, how I evaluate my national supplier now, for bringing me the radiator and the a/c condenser in a perfect shape.
As for cooling efficiency a nice research might be done on that. What I've learned while working on a sea vessel engines, the engine blocks are equipped with two circulation circuits: high temperature (HT) and low temperature (LT). Similar as in cars. The boiler steam is heating the water in HT via heat exchanger, so that the cooling inlet temperature reaches 90 degrees of Celsius. The temperature is measured then on the block outlet. It should not differ from the inlet more than a 5 degrees (while the blocks are huge size). So, in fact, even, when the engine is shut, the block is being kept warm. A rule is You never ever cannot crank a cold block engine. Then, when the engine starts running, the temperature in HT is increasing due to a heat dissipation in the cylinder's jackets. So, the heat exchanger in between HT and LT acts a three-way valve in order to cool down the HT media with LT if necessary. The role of a three-way valve plays a thermostat in Blazer. It sends a HT core coolant to the LT section with a radiator and a fan. So, as far, as the thermostat isn't over regulated (fully open) and the temperature of the engine block isn't increasing above setpoint, the cooling efficiency is OK.
As for cooling efficiency a nice research might be done on that. What I've learned while working on a sea vessel engines, the engine blocks are equipped with two circulation circuits: high temperature (HT) and low temperature (LT). Similar as in cars. The boiler steam is heating the water in HT via heat exchanger, so that the cooling inlet temperature reaches 90 degrees of Celsius. The temperature is measured then on the block outlet. It should not differ from the inlet more than a 5 degrees (while the blocks are huge size). So, in fact, even, when the engine is shut, the block is being kept warm. A rule is You never ever cannot crank a cold block engine. Then, when the engine starts running, the temperature in HT is increasing due to a heat dissipation in the cylinder's jackets. So, the heat exchanger in between HT and LT acts a three-way valve in order to cool down the HT media with LT if necessary. The role of a three-way valve plays a thermostat in Blazer. It sends a HT core coolant to the LT section with a radiator and a fan. So, as far, as the thermostat isn't over regulated (fully open) and the temperature of the engine block isn't increasing above setpoint, the cooling efficiency is OK.
#19
02-23-2019, 05:30 AM
Update: I ordered the Mishimoto radiator from Jegs because after a bit of research it looked to have an even better warranty than the Keystone. Well it arrived damaged, FedEx really tossed it around with holes being made in the box by the water inlet and outlets. The overflow connection was broken off along with the "wings" for the drain spigot.
Perhaps worse was that the radiator that I was so happy to have found because it was advertised to have a thicker core of 1 3/8" turned out to have a standard 1" core. I actually had checked the Mishimoto.com website to double check so I thought this was good data. Guess not.
So now, I need to decide if I want to get a radiator from Autozone or O'Reilly's with the standard core of 1" or hope that the Keystone one actually has a thicker core for more cooling.
Ugh... I need a beer.
Perhaps worse was that the radiator that I was so happy to have found because it was advertised to have a thicker core of 1 3/8" turned out to have a standard 1" core. I actually had checked the Mishimoto.com website to double check so I thought this was good data. Guess not.
So now, I need to decide if I want to get a radiator from Autozone or O'Reilly's with the standard core of 1" or hope that the Keystone one actually has a thicker core for more cooling.
Ugh... I need a beer.
It might be worth engaging Mishimoto directly if the dimensions are off. They still list the core thickness @ 1.375" (1 3/8") on their product page for it. It's quite likely though that the best outcome you might get might be an eventual correction to the description to 1".
I kind of doubt there's much difference between the Keystone and the Mishimoto either. If it was offered in stock locally at Advance I'd just go take a look for just argument's sake but it's ship-to-home only. If you order keep your fingers crossed, and make sure you've got an airtight retailer guarantee and a credit card guarantee to fall back on in case you need to do a chargeback.
In fact, at this point I think I might be inclined to go for ACDelco (again) the next time I need a radiator if we're already talking plastic tanks anyway.
#20
02-26-2019, 02:48 PM
Well, that's disheartening, if for no other reason than I had already saved the Mishimoto to my Amazon "stuff I want for my Blazer if/when the time comes" wishlist.
It might be worth engaging Mishimoto directly if the dimensions are off. They still list the core thickness @ 1.375" (1 3/8") on their product page for it. It's quite likely though that the best outcome you might get might be an eventual correction to the description to 1".
I kind of doubt there's much difference between the Keystone and the Mishimoto either. If it was offered in stock locally at Advance I'd just go take a look for just argument's sake but it's ship-to-home only. If you order keep your fingers crossed, and make sure you've got an airtight retailer guarantee and a credit card guarantee to fall back on in case you need to do a chargeback.
In fact, at this point I think I might be inclined to go for ACDelco (again) the next time I need a radiator if we're already talking plastic tanks anyway.
It might be worth engaging Mishimoto directly if the dimensions are off. They still list the core thickness @ 1.375" (1 3/8") on their product page for it. It's quite likely though that the best outcome you might get might be an eventual correction to the description to 1".
I kind of doubt there's much difference between the Keystone and the Mishimoto either. If it was offered in stock locally at Advance I'd just go take a look for just argument's sake but it's ship-to-home only. If you order keep your fingers crossed, and make sure you've got an airtight retailer guarantee and a credit card guarantee to fall back on in case you need to do a chargeback.
In fact, at this point I think I might be inclined to go for ACDelco (again) the next time I need a radiator if we're already talking plastic tanks anyway.
The only option for a reasonably priced domestically made all aluminum radiator has discontinued making them. (speedcooling.com) A custom could be made but that is way too expensive. I also considered one of the ones from Champion but none of theirs had the connections for the remote engine oil cooler. To add a separate engine oil cooler would have cost a couple hundred dollars more, not including the hassle of having to plumb and mount such a cooler.
I have since sent an email to speedcooling.com to tell them that I think there is still quite a bit of interest in their product for our Blazers. We'll see if they start making them again.