Transmisson rebuild
#1
04-21-2019, 08:42 AM
Transmisson rebuild
Howdy,
I am hardly thinking of getting a preowned transmission for rebuilding. I think mine is/may have some issues and many of You reported to rebuild the engine and then the transmission. Since last spring, mine is giving some "grinding" sound" (3-5Hz frequency) after cranking the cold engine and switching to "D" when I start moving on. With idle throttle the effect exist just for a 3-5 seconds. When I press the gas just a little bit to hit over 1k2 rpms, the effect is gone. Even, if I return back again below under 1k2.
To be honest, I am not sure whether it's a transmission or not. I just have the feeling one of the valves stuck on a cold oil or the TCC valve needs a Sonnax upgrade. I'd prefer to keep on driving and do the transmission meanwhile. Usually I am short with time, so doing the job in a spare time is a best option for me.
I have found a transmission with a non-working 3rd-4th gear (most probably clutch pack burned out) with 125k miles for about $120. Is it worth getting that transmission and doing the rebuild? I could use the upgraded, durable parts (clutch packs, Sonnax TCC upgrade, reaction shell, etc). Does it make any sense? Or 125k is a worn off piece of junk, so better wait till this one dies and buy another one for $600?
Any input welcome, Mike
I am hardly thinking of getting a preowned transmission for rebuilding. I think mine is/may have some issues and many of You reported to rebuild the engine and then the transmission. Since last spring, mine is giving some "grinding" sound" (3-5Hz frequency) after cranking the cold engine and switching to "D" when I start moving on. With idle throttle the effect exist just for a 3-5 seconds. When I press the gas just a little bit to hit over 1k2 rpms, the effect is gone. Even, if I return back again below under 1k2.
To be honest, I am not sure whether it's a transmission or not. I just have the feeling one of the valves stuck on a cold oil or the TCC valve needs a Sonnax upgrade. I'd prefer to keep on driving and do the transmission meanwhile. Usually I am short with time, so doing the job in a spare time is a best option for me.
I have found a transmission with a non-working 3rd-4th gear (most probably clutch pack burned out) with 125k miles for about $120. Is it worth getting that transmission and doing the rebuild? I could use the upgraded, durable parts (clutch packs, Sonnax TCC upgrade, reaction shell, etc). Does it make any sense? Or 125k is a worn off piece of junk, so better wait till this one dies and buy another one for $600?
Any input welcome, Mike
#3
04-21-2019, 06:33 PM
I'd look into one of the beefier models for a rebuild. A 4L65E or 4L70E. Could a 4L80E also fit?
#4
04-22-2019, 01:36 AM
I'd also thank for the input of those who could post on how much did the parts cost to rebuild their transmissions. It would give me an estimated cost.
#5
04-22-2019, 09:04 AM
Oh, would be great to get somebody's input whether 4L80 fits or not. Amongst Your list, this is the one that is actually offered here. The odd is they are offered as parts for "Jaguar XJ", and are pricey ($1200). Another difference is that this one is a defect free.
I'd also thank for the input of those who could post on how much did the parts cost to rebuild their transmissions. It would give me an estimated cost.
I'd also thank for the input of those who could post on how much did the parts cost to rebuild their transmissions. It would give me an estimated cost.
#7
04-22-2019, 01:56 PM
I think that accidentally I've found a nice rebuild tips on 4L60E at our national forum (4L60E - Racingforum - Drag, Drift & Time Attack - Racing Forum) I am re-posting it, so maybe someone will take use of it. I've went the easiest way, translating on Google Translator, so there may be some sematic issues.
Hello, due to a lot of free time during the Christmas break, I decided to describe the modifications I made in my 4l60e. I'm aware of many opinions about its durability, most of the professionals say that it will spoil so much, I have heard so much foolishness about it that it prompted me to describe what I did in my gear and what modifications I made, described all step by step and the article dedicates everything courageous people who want to take matters into their own hands or fight with such a chest, and she is spoiled once for the season for anger.
So to the point:
The works have been divided into two stages
the first was to strengthen the critical elements as well as the elimination of the most common malfunctions tormenting this model.
Stage No. 2 is the work that allowed to get faster change time as well as eliminating problems with change and linear pressure which does not doubt about this model of the chest.
so I will start from the end:
The back guide pan was made to order because the secondary market does not offer expanded ones, you can buy from better material, but this is not what it has to be 3mm wider then it works.
The rear planetary system changed from 4 rollers to 5 rollers (GM) personally think that 4 rollers are enough
I changed because the transmission will eventually work with TRANS BRAKE and this planetary gear will be blocked during the start in such a way.
New set of discs and ventilated separators on low / revers clutch (series)
A frequent fault is the significant wear of the pan in the solar wheel, I recommend replacing it with the sonnax bushings, it is wider and made of better materials
[dead link here]
The next element in the project is SHELL it is an element that is even sensitive. The most frequent damage is the teeth creeping on multi-line but there are cases where the driver's teeth may break and hence the damage to the reverso basket and worse damage to the casing creates a hole sad.gif unfortunately I know The autopsy is even worse when it was applied shell hi-performance made of thicker steel, I absolutely do not recommend you can buy such a product in the states for 50-60 $ Yes, the material is thicker but much softer, I recommend the use of the product sonnax is a modified shell that has a reinforced and hardened polygon as well as hardened tip driver, what's important in the set get a special one-way clutch and thrust bearing instead of sliding like it is in the serial version and this is important because in this project we also fight with friction.
[dead link here]
I left the front planetary system, although there are great possibilities, not only 5 rollers can be used, but even systems with different ratio are available.
the forward one-way clutch has been replaced in double, even in cars with lower power, very often the clutch is destroyed.
[dead link here]
clutch 3-4 is a weakest link of of this model, there are many strengthening kits available on the market. I do not recommend Alto or Z-pack does not work. The advantage of Z-pack is only the temperature distribution and unquestionably better materials, and in fact the friction surface is the same as in serial disc clutch 7 because I use a set of 9 disk company Raybestos works in 100% important some throw springs separating I do not recommend this, because we extend the span time but more on that later.
forward and overrun clutch has been replaced prophylactically for a new serial here, if there is no problem with pressure, it will be an eternal element.
next step was to modify the basket (imput) firstly, vulcanized steel pistons were replaced with an older model (aluminum) but the piston 3-4 leave steel, why aluminum forward because it is the only way to strengthen the input shaft in the basket happens when the engine has a high torque rotating nitro / turbo shaft can break multi-spline or tear embedment, to prevent this we use a special aluminum overrun piston with a mysterious acetal pan press on the press into the basket (input) which squeezes the multi-pole will prevent its destruction piston works only with aluminum forward piston therefore, such a change is necessary.
[dead link here]
another element is the rear support bushing leading the roller (imput) it's worth replacing it with Teflon from the sonnax offer
The revers basket basically does nothing here except checking the condition of the bearing shells and, of course, if there is a crook that happens in the case of the curvature of the tape 2-4, replace the reversing springs with a harder one. we use the procedure only when we are going to use trans brake
band 2-4 here are different opinions, some say serial is ok others with a wide range of Kevlar narrow I chose a wide carbon at the expense of downforce but it will prevent such a frequent distortion of the basket reverse.
2nd gear piston and 3th battery, there are many options from corvette super servo in which we can replace serial teflon seals with rubber as well as sonnax piston which increases the clamping force by 18%
or Option No. 3 which I chose is a company piston raptor increasing the strength of downforce by 35% choosing a piston for yourself you have to remember that the greater the crowd the more sensible change of gear from 2-3 and 3-4 can sometimes interfere with quiet driving the question of taste.
]dead link here]
the piston of 4th gear here I will not write off Sonnax increases the downforce by 40% there are also other ones available but none is so efficient
[dead link here]
in the pump we use a rotor 10 vane 13 vane has a fine spacing and it happens that in a car with nitro is able to disintegrate into pieces are available 13 rotor cured rotors but this unnecessary expense in a moment describe the modifications of the control system will be so serious that the 13 vane pump will not needed and it is safer not to have it in your chest.
as far as the pump is concerned, there is a main control valve for the linear pressure boost valve controlled by an electro-valve PC, but about that later, the valve is replaced with the largest I assumed 0.490 "replacement of this valve is necessary is a basic procedure to improve the line characteristics in 4L60 / 4L60E and not only.
In addition, there are springs in the pump limiting the efficiency we also exchange in series, 2 are in the other one we replace it with one harder (sonnax)
[dead link here]
Then the forward, 1-2, 3-4 batteries have been replaced without pins with springs (sonnax)
CONTROL
Change valve 2-3 changed to hi-performance which in the D3 position activates the overrun clutch and works from 1st to 3rd gear supporting
forward friction clutch as well as support Forward one-way clutch.
[dead link here]
steel ***** changed to Teflon
control board modified according to the instructions of the sonnax performance pack .96 up. I'm not going to do it anymore but just to mention that in addition to these recommendations I made my own drillings based on experience, if someone is curious or builds such a branch, it's easy to give information on where and why to drill
additionally in the control, the end plugs for sonnax with rubber gaskets have been replaced as well as the 1-2 light throttle bang / end bump shift valve has been modified
in addition, I used a 3-4 sequence valve kit, actuator feed limit valve kit
It would be so obviously in the whole of the box was changed the set of seals I did not write about it earlier because I thought it was obvious that the chest works with a compressor with 2800/3200 9 "stamper by REVMAX
Attention after carrying out such modifications, we have to prepare for draining the oil and removing the oil pan to adjust the PC valve this valve is factory adjusted but at the factory it does not mean well in the middle of the valve there is a small screw, the procedure is such a manometer we fire the engine should be heated about 80C and the pressure should
do not be lower than 70psi, I propose to set about 80psi is the minimum pressure no less important than the maximum
because when we go to the test with a buttoned manometer we will find out that driving quietly or even slightly gently ahead / accelerating we notice that for 70-80% of driving time it is this pressure that is the main control value
PC valve raises pressure only during a significant increase in torque, which is important to use this procedure even when performing a standard overhaul.
Now the most important question is if what I described works and does it give the desired effect ???? In 4L60E which is electrically controlled the following symptoms may appear: an error informing about the wrong time of change which is a good symptom,
during full acceleration the gear change can last longer than before modifications from 2 to 3 even longer than a second is also a good sign, there may also be other anomalies when changing the gear, this applies to every possibility or
1-2,2-3 3-4,4-3,3-2,2-1 that's all means that treatments performed in the chest work.
Anomaly are signs of a failure to match the adaptive settings in relation to the actual change time.
For example, while, for example, we travel with a load of 360 ft.lb of torque, the changeover time 1-2 is 0.375sec. and from 2-3 0.325sec. And if we have obtained the times eg 20-40% faster, the computer automatically reduces the pressure of change through the PC valve, striving for the times it has in the table what has nothing to do with what we wanted to achieve so you have to dress it up with the help of HP-Tuners
the principle is simple to launch HP-Tuners enter the gearbox then (Auto Shift Properties) and the tab (Shift Time)
we focus on parameters from 240 ft.lb to the end of the table in the case of changes from 1a2 and 2na3 we reduce the times by 30-40% (I decreased by 50% works
but if you change 3-4, enter ZERO everywhere.
Hello, due to a lot of free time during the Christmas break, I decided to describe the modifications I made in my 4l60e. I'm aware of many opinions about its durability, most of the professionals say that it will spoil so much, I have heard so much foolishness about it that it prompted me to describe what I did in my gear and what modifications I made, described all step by step and the article dedicates everything courageous people who want to take matters into their own hands or fight with such a chest, and she is spoiled once for the season for anger.
So to the point:
The works have been divided into two stages
the first was to strengthen the critical elements as well as the elimination of the most common malfunctions tormenting this model.
Stage No. 2 is the work that allowed to get faster change time as well as eliminating problems with change and linear pressure which does not doubt about this model of the chest.
so I will start from the end:
The back guide pan was made to order because the secondary market does not offer expanded ones, you can buy from better material, but this is not what it has to be 3mm wider then it works.
The rear planetary system changed from 4 rollers to 5 rollers (GM) personally think that 4 rollers are enough
I changed because the transmission will eventually work with TRANS BRAKE and this planetary gear will be blocked during the start in such a way.
New set of discs and ventilated separators on low / revers clutch (series)
A frequent fault is the significant wear of the pan in the solar wheel, I recommend replacing it with the sonnax bushings, it is wider and made of better materials
[dead link here]
The next element in the project is SHELL it is an element that is even sensitive. The most frequent damage is the teeth creeping on multi-line but there are cases where the driver's teeth may break and hence the damage to the reverso basket and worse damage to the casing creates a hole sad.gif unfortunately I know The autopsy is even worse when it was applied shell hi-performance made of thicker steel, I absolutely do not recommend you can buy such a product in the states for 50-60 $ Yes, the material is thicker but much softer, I recommend the use of the product sonnax is a modified shell that has a reinforced and hardened polygon as well as hardened tip driver, what's important in the set get a special one-way clutch and thrust bearing instead of sliding like it is in the serial version and this is important because in this project we also fight with friction.
[dead link here]
I left the front planetary system, although there are great possibilities, not only 5 rollers can be used, but even systems with different ratio are available.
the forward one-way clutch has been replaced in double, even in cars with lower power, very often the clutch is destroyed.
[dead link here]
clutch 3-4 is a weakest link of of this model, there are many strengthening kits available on the market. I do not recommend Alto or Z-pack does not work. The advantage of Z-pack is only the temperature distribution and unquestionably better materials, and in fact the friction surface is the same as in serial disc clutch 7 because I use a set of 9 disk company Raybestos works in 100% important some throw springs separating I do not recommend this, because we extend the span time but more on that later.
forward and overrun clutch has been replaced prophylactically for a new serial here, if there is no problem with pressure, it will be an eternal element.
next step was to modify the basket (imput) firstly, vulcanized steel pistons were replaced with an older model (aluminum) but the piston 3-4 leave steel, why aluminum forward because it is the only way to strengthen the input shaft in the basket happens when the engine has a high torque rotating nitro / turbo shaft can break multi-spline or tear embedment, to prevent this we use a special aluminum overrun piston with a mysterious acetal pan press on the press into the basket (input) which squeezes the multi-pole will prevent its destruction piston works only with aluminum forward piston therefore, such a change is necessary.
[dead link here]
another element is the rear support bushing leading the roller (imput) it's worth replacing it with Teflon from the sonnax offer
The revers basket basically does nothing here except checking the condition of the bearing shells and, of course, if there is a crook that happens in the case of the curvature of the tape 2-4, replace the reversing springs with a harder one. we use the procedure only when we are going to use trans brake
band 2-4 here are different opinions, some say serial is ok others with a wide range of Kevlar narrow I chose a wide carbon at the expense of downforce but it will prevent such a frequent distortion of the basket reverse.
2nd gear piston and 3th battery, there are many options from corvette super servo in which we can replace serial teflon seals with rubber as well as sonnax piston which increases the clamping force by 18%
or Option No. 3 which I chose is a company piston raptor increasing the strength of downforce by 35% choosing a piston for yourself you have to remember that the greater the crowd the more sensible change of gear from 2-3 and 3-4 can sometimes interfere with quiet driving the question of taste.
]dead link here]
the piston of 4th gear here I will not write off Sonnax increases the downforce by 40% there are also other ones available but none is so efficient
[dead link here]
in the pump we use a rotor 10 vane 13 vane has a fine spacing and it happens that in a car with nitro is able to disintegrate into pieces are available 13 rotor cured rotors but this unnecessary expense in a moment describe the modifications of the control system will be so serious that the 13 vane pump will not needed and it is safer not to have it in your chest.
as far as the pump is concerned, there is a main control valve for the linear pressure boost valve controlled by an electro-valve PC, but about that later, the valve is replaced with the largest I assumed 0.490 "replacement of this valve is necessary is a basic procedure to improve the line characteristics in 4L60 / 4L60E and not only.
In addition, there are springs in the pump limiting the efficiency we also exchange in series, 2 are in the other one we replace it with one harder (sonnax)
[dead link here]
Then the forward, 1-2, 3-4 batteries have been replaced without pins with springs (sonnax)
CONTROL
Change valve 2-3 changed to hi-performance which in the D3 position activates the overrun clutch and works from 1st to 3rd gear supporting
forward friction clutch as well as support Forward one-way clutch.
[dead link here]
steel ***** changed to Teflon
control board modified according to the instructions of the sonnax performance pack .96 up. I'm not going to do it anymore but just to mention that in addition to these recommendations I made my own drillings based on experience, if someone is curious or builds such a branch, it's easy to give information on where and why to drill
additionally in the control, the end plugs for sonnax with rubber gaskets have been replaced as well as the 1-2 light throttle bang / end bump shift valve has been modified
in addition, I used a 3-4 sequence valve kit, actuator feed limit valve kit
It would be so obviously in the whole of the box was changed the set of seals I did not write about it earlier because I thought it was obvious that the chest works with a compressor with 2800/3200 9 "stamper by REVMAX
Attention after carrying out such modifications, we have to prepare for draining the oil and removing the oil pan to adjust the PC valve this valve is factory adjusted but at the factory it does not mean well in the middle of the valve there is a small screw, the procedure is such a manometer we fire the engine should be heated about 80C and the pressure should
do not be lower than 70psi, I propose to set about 80psi is the minimum pressure no less important than the maximum
because when we go to the test with a buttoned manometer we will find out that driving quietly or even slightly gently ahead / accelerating we notice that for 70-80% of driving time it is this pressure that is the main control value
PC valve raises pressure only during a significant increase in torque, which is important to use this procedure even when performing a standard overhaul.
Now the most important question is if what I described works and does it give the desired effect ???? In 4L60E which is electrically controlled the following symptoms may appear: an error informing about the wrong time of change which is a good symptom,
during full acceleration the gear change can last longer than before modifications from 2 to 3 even longer than a second is also a good sign, there may also be other anomalies when changing the gear, this applies to every possibility or
1-2,2-3 3-4,4-3,3-2,2-1 that's all means that treatments performed in the chest work.
Anomaly are signs of a failure to match the adaptive settings in relation to the actual change time.
For example, while, for example, we travel with a load of 360 ft.lb of torque, the changeover time 1-2 is 0.375sec. and from 2-3 0.325sec. And if we have obtained the times eg 20-40% faster, the computer automatically reduces the pressure of change through the PC valve, striving for the times it has in the table what has nothing to do with what we wanted to achieve so you have to dress it up with the help of HP-Tuners
the principle is simple to launch HP-Tuners enter the gearbox then (Auto Shift Properties) and the tab (Shift Time)
we focus on parameters from 240 ft.lb to the end of the table in the case of changes from 1a2 and 2na3 we reduce the times by 30-40% (I decreased by 50% works
but if you change 3-4, enter ZERO everywhere.
Last edited by Mike.308; 04-22-2019 at 02:06 PM.
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