Cranks...Cranks...Cranks...no Start
 

EDIT:
To save everyone time, the issue described below was fixed with the installation of a new ignition rotor. I first replaced the ignition switch but there was no change. I then replaced the plug wires and then the distributor cap and tried to start the blazer after each install but it didn't start until the rotor was replaced at the end.

Hey guys, I've been searching on this forum for "no start" issues due to my own problems. Seems that there are multiple threads that are started with the same issue I have and then we are left hanging with no final update/conclusion. I promise whatever happens that I will post my end results even if it is me pushing the vehicle into my pond! :)

I have a 2000 Blazer 4dr. 4x4 LT that when it seems to sit for more than a couple days will not start back-up. This has happened on multiple occasions when it would sit and not start. One time I was so frustrated cranking it over and over that I actually burned up the original starter! When it does start, it seems to run fine! :confused:

The engine itself cranks over just fine and after 10 or so seconds when you stop you can hear the engine sputter like it is trying to run?!?! I can sit there for 10-20 minutes doing this and it will not start. Like I said, the worst part is that when it is running there are no issues and it starts up relatively quickly (although seems to be a little longer than my other vehicles) but it doesn't take 10 seconds. Maybe 3-4. Like I said, just a little longer than usual.

I am looking to sell this truck because I just got my g/f a newer vehicle. I had the erratic gas gauge issue so I went ahead and replaced the whole fuel pump assembly while I was at it (with a geniune new AC delco unit). Erratic gas gauge solved. Also, when it was cold it would tend to "buck" a little when you first were pulling away through first and second gear. That has gone away also after the fuel pump install. While I was at it, I changed out the spark plugs and checked the rotor & cap as they are not old since my last tune-up. After the fuel pump was changed it still had a small problem starting but I was able to get it started. Ran fine for a couple hundred miles and then it sat for a few days. Go out to start it to pull it out of the garage and wash it to get ready to go up for sale...won't start. It cranks over just fine and stumbles a couple times like it wants to start but just wont "catch".

To rule out some things, the following are fairly new (within 10,000 miles) and installed by me and afterwards the truck has run w/o any problems after each install: alternator, battery, starter, fuel pump and spark plugs.

After reading some threads and some links to the fuel pressure check write-up from Swartlkk (thanks btw!), I went and bought the gauge and I am currently checking that. Here are my findings (note that I did this test a few times just in case):

When the ignition is turned on the fuel pump can be heard running and also when the ignition is turned off it runs for a short period of time also as it should.

Iginition on fuel pump running: 60 psi (should be 60-66psi)
Fuel pump shuts off after cycling the pressure drops to: 58 psi
Fuel pressure as it is cranking over: 58 psi
Pressure after sitting for 10 mins: 52-53 psi (shouldn't drop more than 5 psi)
Relieved pressure to 10 psi and after 10 mins: 10 psi (shouldn't drop more than 2 psi)

Looks to me that the fuel test data is in-line with the parameters in Swartlkk's write-up. Does this sound like the (in)famous ignition switch issues?

Thanks in advance for any responses!!

JT

Will it start if you use starter fluid?

Will it start if you put jumper cables to it?

I know that it is difficult to let it sit a few days to diagnose this, but either of those two things happening would give us a good direction to go in. If starter fluid allows it to start, then it is likely something fuel related. If more voltage allows it to start, then you could be looking at something with the ignition system requiring higher voltage to start..

Thanks for the reply Swart. Hey...I'll do whatever you guys need me to try! :)

Ok, I tried before I changed my fuel pump a couple weeks ago but I figured I would try again now with starter fluid...no luck. Didn't work before and doesn't work now.

The blazer has been in my garage on a battery charger to bring up the charge since I wear it down with turning it over so much and the engine not running. Anyways, the battery is fully charged and I tried to jump it...no luck. Then I tried to jump it with adding starter fluid. No luck.

Also, just to note, there is no CEL. I want to check the spark but have to wait till someone else gets home. But as I noted originally, it does run. It was running a couple days ago and it did this "no start" thing prior a couple times also.

If it will not start with starting fluid, then you know that fuel is not the issue. I would continue on through the ignition system looking for problems. Remove your coil and ICM (ignition control module) and take them to your nearest Autozone or Advanced Auto and have them tested. Have them tested repeatedly (>10 times) to get them good and hot to expose any heat related problems.

I didn't know Autozone could test the coil & ICM (I know they can check batteries, starters & altenators)? I can get them tested although I did just pull the front passenger-side spark plug wire off and there is "spark" when it is cranking.

So I have spark at the plugs, fuel up to the fuel rail and air. Could it be the injectors are not firing? What does the security system disable?...spark or fuel? I started thinking about it, the fuel pressure pretty much stayed at the same PSI while it was turning over...is that normal or should there be a drop?

Starting fluid should have been enough to sustain combustion. So fuel should not be the issue.

Just so we are on the same page, I pulled off the air intake where it dumps into the throttle body. Opened the butterfly valve and sprayed into the intake the starter fluid for about 10-15 seconds. I know back in the day of carbs, starter fluid was in every mechanic's tool chest but I've only used it to help get my snowmobiles running after fogging the engines during storage. Just want to make sure that I did it right.

I will pull off the coil and ICM and get them tested tomorrow. More to follow.

Thanks again for the help Swartlkk!! It is appreciated.

So long as you either disconnected the electrical connection to the MAF or reinstalled the intake duct work prior to attempting to start, yes, that should have been sufficient to fuel the engine for a bit.

There is a known issue with '96 to '03 Blazer-Jimmy's with the fuel delivery system. There are is a lot of information out there regarding the problem with the SCPI fuel injection module. It is an easy replacement to go to Multi-port Injection (I did it in a parking lot at a hotel I was staying at; also did the lower and upper intake gaskets while I was there...). This problem apparently only involved the S series trucks but not the fullsize pickups with the 4.3

Typical signs and symptoms of this problem are hard starting that gets progressively worse as time goes by. May run like a jalopy, etc. It may also be impossible to start if it is very wet outside. My truck had those exact symptoms and after replacing it with the updated module, my '96 ran like it was new. Please note that I also did the lower intake gaskets while I was doing this and I'm VERY glad I did. The LI gaskets were totally trashed and ready to blow out (original 12 y/o gaskets from the destructive Dex-Cool years).

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/part_im...K125683321.JPG

I did not get the part from Gmpartsdirect.com. I bought it online from some GM dealership that I believe was in Pennsylvania for close to $200 for the actual part and the gasket kit. GMPartsDirect charges too much for shipping. Check partszoneonline.com; their prices are just a little bit higher but they don't rape you on the shipping.

Here are some better photos of the work:

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/s...de-kit-324166/

Look at multiple forum threads on this issue and you won't have a problem. Gather as much info as you can get so when you go to do this you won't have any questions. We'll be here to help.

His symptoms and subsequent diagnosis has pretty much ruled out the fuel system. I doubt that replacing the spider at this point would do anything but lighten his wallet. I could see the spider being the issue if the truck would start on starting fluid, but it does not. This indicates an ignition problem.

The engine itself cranks over just fine and after 10 or so seconds when you stop you can hear the engine sputter like it is trying to run?!?!

From this statement above--

I had a Jimmy once that had no ignition voltage during "crank"- only "run" - it was a bad ignition switch- I proved it by jumping 12v to the ignition circuit...

Engine tried to start when I let off the key- went from "crank" to "run" - the engine was still turning when it finally saw the 12v in "run" position and would sputter as you describe.....

Just a follow-up to this post. Yesterday I didn't put the duct work back on prior to starting. I tried it again this morning as you described (replacing the duct) and it still didn't start.

Yes! It does a funky little sputter after I let off. It does this for only 1 or 2 seconds. It almost sounds/feels like 1 or 2 cylinders only are firing...really light sputter.

Edit:
Interesting because the original starter that I burned up I noticed that if I cranked on it, let it off and then cranked right away it seemed closer to wanting to start. Needless to say, the starter didn't care for this type of "duty" on it and actually started smoking. lol

Update: I took the coil and ICM off to have them tested. They both tested ok and from two different stores (just to be on the safe side).

That would seem to point to an ignition switch problem then.

Swartlkk, I've read on here a bunch of times about the security light being a good sign if the ignition switch is faulty. What exactly should it be doing? I checked mine, it basically comes on when I turn the key to the "on" position as the fuel pump is running. When the pump shuts down the light goes out a second afterwards. When I crank the engine over the light is not on but as soon as I stop and the fuel pump comes back on the security light comes back on and when the pump shuts down the security light goes out a second afterwards.

That sounds like the normal functioning of the security light, however, it really depends on what side of the ignition it drops. There are typically two main ignision sources which affect different systems.

Thanks again for the help Swart!

I'll be running over to Autozone tomorrow morning to get a new ignition switch. Has anyone done a write-up on how to swap one out? I have been searching (and still searching) for one but don't seem to see one anywhere. Trying to avoid buying a chilton/haynes since I'll be selling the vehicle shortly.

I'll give an update tomorrow if the switch solved the issue or not.

Not sure how much it would be like the rest of the 2nd gens. I put the book method up in the Tech Articles (DIY) section.

I was just coming back to edit my last post saying I found your DIY write-up in another thread! You beat me to the punch! :)

For anyone else, here is a link to Swartllk's write-up:

https://blazerforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18255

:(

New ignition switch installed...same ol' problem.

Edit:
After cooling down I decided to remove my rant as it is not going to help anyone reading this.

I have a few general questions:

1). Is the ignition switch a plug n' play or do I have to relearn the passlock?
2). If I have spark at the plugs, can there be "too little"? Or if you have a spark, then you have a spark plain and simple?
3). Along the same lines, how do I know if I am getting enough fuel in the cylinders? I figure just because I have pressure at the fuel rail it may not mean I am actually getting the fuel into the cylinders. Although keeping in mind this is not starting with starter fluid either.

I decided to try something I read on here which is starter fluid with the MAF sensor disconnected. Ok...that didn't work either. It has to be a "spark" issue or the timing of the spark occuring. Should I check the timing and if so, what should it be?

Thanks again for everyone's time and help in this.

All of your symptoms pointed to a failing or faulty ignition switch. There is only so much that any of us can do over the internet.

You really cannot check the timing with the engine not running. You can ball park it.

You could try removing the distributor retaining bolt (under the distributor into the lower intake manifold) and turning the distributor to see if it helps.

No no...don't take me the wrong way...not blaming anyone because I would have replaced everything by now on my own! My "rant" was over the vehicle itself not the advice I've been given. I appreciate everyone's input in trying to figure this out.

I think I am going to try and jump it again tomorrow and see if I can get it running. It worked in the past (although didn't work the other day when I tried it). Just seems like something is out-of-sync. I am also going to pop off a plug or two and see if they are soaked with gas after failing to start.

Just weird how it runs fine for 2 weeks and then as soon as it sits for a couple days it won't run. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

I feel your pain. Try something non-mechanical. Talk to, and pet her. It just might work.:)

Hmm...interesting. I've tried the kick/curse and that didn't work...maybe the "pet" is the key! :D Hell!...I'm willing to bring in a holistic healer at this point!

Update: Ok, tried to jump it again today. Even cranked the jeep up to around 1800 rpm (via electric hand throttle controller....awesome for off-roading with a manual tranny) during the "jumping". It was cranking over very strong and still no start. I even tried starter fluid once again and no luck.

I pulled one of the plugs after trying to jump it and it was soaked with gas....so atleast I know I am getting fuel to the spark plug and I know I have the right pressure at the rail up top.

One thing that happened today that hasn't happened before. When I get done cranking and it does its little "engine sputter" for a couple seconds, there was about 3 seconds of silence and then it "sputtered" again?!?! Interesting. Damn gremlins!! lol

My next plan of attack it to continue focusing on the "spark" side. I'm going to replace the dist. cap, rotor and plug wires (remember, spark plugs are brand new...and in case someone thinks about it, the gap was properly set based on Mfg's recommendations) as I figured if nothing else, it will help the selling cause by saying a tune-up was just completed. For the benefit of the forum, I will start with the plug wires, then the dist. cap and then finally the rotor just so if something does break through we will be able to pin point which one solved (keep fingers crossed!) the problem.

Try this before you tear into it too deeply. Remove the hold down bolt for the distributor and try rotating it in either direction. Then try starting it. Do not go crazy with the rotation, but maybe 30* in either direction in say 10* increments.

IT'S ALIVE!!! :)

Swartlkk was on the right track with the "spark" being the issue.

Ok, as I mentioned before I was going to go ahead and do the wires, cap & rotor. I was going to rotate the distributer next as Swartlkk mentioned if this didn't work. I first changed the wires and then the cap itself testing inbetween changes. The blazer acted no different....would just crank over and over and stumble after I let off.

So I went ahead and changed the rotor. I cranked the engine over the 1st time and it didn't start...my heart sunk. Cranked it again and it fired up!

I have shut it down and restarted it numerous times with no issue now. If you rev the engine up and then take the throttle to 0% it drops really low on the RPM's (around 400 rpm) like it is going to stall but it recovers. There is no check engine light and I am letting it run a bit as it probably has a bunch of fuel/starter fluid/etc. built up from the continuous cranking and no starting.

Hopefully this is it. Thanks everyone for their input esp. Swartlkk. It was very helpful and saved me a ton of time and $$. I am also going to put the fix on the first post so people don't have to read through the entire thing to see what solved it.

Good deal! Keep us posted in the long term!

Well....hopefully the long term won't be too long since I am going to be trying to sell it! :)

I do plan however to let the blazer sit for a couple days (starting today) as I detail the interior, put the dash back together after the ignition switch install and install a new driver's side mirror. I'll then try to start it after hopefully a few days of sitting to see if the problem returns.

Then I have to get the wonderful NY inspection done and then I'll try to let it sit for a while (hopefully about a week) before starting it again. I just want to make sure this solves the problem so I don't sell it and the buyer runs into the same problem a week later.

I'll post an update in a few days. Thanks again Swartlkk!

JT

Well I hope it all works out for you.

Did the running of this vehicle degrade over time or did it run great one day and die the next?

Was there obvious issue with the bad rotor when you took it out?

Tony, it is hard for me to answer your first question because it is my girlfriend's blazer and I wasn't driving it everyday. I can tell you that the times I did drive it I really didn't notice much of an issue with the performance. Again, the problem I had was when it sat for more than a couple days (like if it wasn't driven over the weekend) I had trouble starting it more than once. Once I did get it started and she was driving it everyday there was no problems.

The rotor didn't look that bad too me when I pulled it out. I noticed more oxidation on the inside of the distributor cap's contact points then any obvious issues with the rotor. But, the truck didn't run with the new cap & wires, only after I installed the new rotor.

Final Update!
 

Well after sitting since Wednesday night, the blazer started up with no problems. I noticed that when it starts up also that it is not taking 3 or so seconds to finally fire like before, it is starting right away.

Swartlkk, I know you are the Admin and the thought just came to me. I have my old ignition switch that I pulled out after I installed the new one. If you remember, this didn't solve the starting issue so I am assuming that the old switch is still good. I was thinking, I wouldn't want to sell this on EBay cause it has 9 years and 100k miles on it, but maybe it would be good for the forum if someone thinks they have a bad switch they can swap this one in and see if it solves the problem. I could ship it to you and you could be the keeper of the switch asking only that whomever you ship it too pays for the shipping there (up to you) and back to you when the test was done. Just a thought. Shoot me a PM if you want it. Thanks again for the help.

JT

I have tried things like this in the past only to have someone not return a particular item. It can work, but it takes honesty and a willingness to pay for the shipping of the item.

Also, to me, it is not worth the cost of this particular part to have to go over it again. One thing that would be worth while would be a detailed examination of the part. I will PM you.