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-   2nd Generation S-series (1995-2005) Tech (https://blazerforum.com/forum/2nd-generation-s-series-1995-2005-tech-41/)
-   -   Won't crank help please (https://blazerforum.com/forum/2nd-generation-s-series-1995-2005-tech-41/wont-crank-help-please-98802/)

Matthewrcarrier 02-08-2019 02:30 PM

It's hard to hear the fuel pump where I am at. Its fairly new under a year it could be a problem and I'm used to changing them in these old chevys lol. I just want to get it cranking before I move to fuel. So starter has strong signal under no load and under load. Theoretically if I run a new wire from the 87 spot To the starter solenoid then a jumper from 30 to 87 my starter should work correct? As long as I have 12 volts at the 30 spot? Ok jumping 30 to 87 does work sorry working with alot of new info here so when I jump them it turns the starter but the key it self won't turn the starter?

Matthewrcarrier 02-08-2019 03:10 PM

Fuel pump good pressure good spark good. I'm at a loss it's like my computer is telling my truck no. If it helps probably should of mentioned it is a 5.7 conversion but I've had it running no issues for 2 years. wiring harness is the 4.3 tho just modified a little. My ECM was tunes for the conversion so I might give them a call and see if they can hook it up and check it out with their scan tool.

swartlkk 02-08-2019 03:30 PM

I casually mentioned testing for power on pin 30 at the relay in my first post in this thread as means of starting the terminal identification as this pin should have +12v at all times. If you had to run a jumper, you would want to find the purple wire, pin D11, in connector C2 - Black under the underhood fuse/relay box. That would be where you want to tie your replacement wire in.

But I see that you said placing a jumper between pins 30 & 87 works which proves out the wiring from the relay to the starter as well as the input side of the relay. If your other testing proves true, then that would point to a bad relay. You can test this by swapping it with another 4-pin relay in a different location and seeing if the truck will turn over.

If swapping in a known good relay still doesn't allow the starter to spin over, then one of your previous test results has to be fishy since your jumper from pins 30 to 87 indicate a good input & output from the relay switched contacts. You tested the coil side inputs for +12V when the key is in the START position and that there is ground at the terminal on the opposite corner of the relay socket. Maybe verify those results?

It shouldn't matter what engine is in it as the controls are very similar if it is still an SCFI Vortec engine (or possibly one upgraded to MFI). The 4.3L was just a 5.7L with 2 less cylinders (more or less). The SCFI Vortec 5.7L was the easiest to swap into the 2nd gens as it involved adding the wires for the injectors, lengthening a few harnesses to reach new sensor locations, and a PCM reprogram on the electrical & controls side (probably over simplified, but whatever).

Matthewrcarrier 02-08-2019 03:40 PM

I tried switching all the relays out as well. I'll buy a new one just for ****s and giggles. Just can't wrap my head around why the key isn't turning the starter when the wires check out. And the ignition switch is brand new. Some reason it appears the key, when turned to start, won't Send a 12v signal. Idk why. I'll keep messing around with it. Thanks for all your input and fast replies good to know there is help!

swartlkk 02-08-2019 03:54 PM

But you said that you have power & ground to the coil side of the relay (pins 85 & 86). That would indicate that the ignition is doing what it is supposed to do. Is that not the case?

If it is the case and proper power & ground are getting to the relay coils to energize it and when jumpered from pins 30 to 87 the starter turns over and if a known good relay is used and still no starter, then the only remaining possibility is bad terminals in the fuse box I guess.. That is strange, but if somehow a pin was forced in wrong, it could have bent a terminal inside the fuse box and caused an intermittent issue with the connection between the fuse box & the relay itself...

It isn't easy, but the fuse box can be disassembled and checked for damage. There are A LOT of clips in a deep lip around the outside of the upper & lower halves that all need to be disengaged (of course this is after you remove all of the relays/fuses & disconnect all of the connectors on the bottom). Once the upper & lower halves are separated, you should find multiple layers of metal circuit traces & plastic that make up the various circuits from the connectors up to the fuse/relays and back down to the connectors. Fairly simple, but DO NOT BEND ANYTHING! You'll have a bitch of a time getting it back together if things get bent out of shape.

Matthewrcarrier 02-08-2019 04:09 PM

Yes Ground ohmed out and the other was 12 volts so I had.. 12 volts on 30, 86 ground, and 12 volts on 85. The ignition works how it supposed to except in the start position. I had someone hold it to start checked the solenoid wire on starter nothing. But jumping the pins 87 and 30 kicked on the starter.

Matthewrcarrier 02-08-2019 05:02 PM

Ok I've triple checked everything concerning the starter circuit. Relay plugsins ALL check out. Crank fuse checks out. EXCEPT for 87 and with the relay being out. 87 shouldn't register voltage since the voltage runs threw the relay to power 87 spot from what I can tell. Still no starter communication when the key is in starting position. I'm tired. Will try the new relay tomorrow. Like you said could be fuse block I hope not but I'm leaning towards this or simply a faulty ignition wiring harness that was sold. Which isn't out of the question but it did it this same thing with my old ignition wiring harness so I doubt it. So just to be clear if all the starter circuit checks out there should be no other reason for my truck to not start with the key? No malfunction sensors or anything won't trigger the ECM in this truck to not start?

Matthewrcarrier 02-09-2019 12:47 PM

Ok I've narrowed it down. So I cut the purple starter wire directly below the fuse box to test for voltage. I jumped 30 to 87 and have12 volts to the purple starter wire good. I jumped 85 PNP wire to 87 while the key is in start position and have 12 volts... good! Now I put the relay in and test the purple starter wire that I've cut with the key in start position and no 12 volts..... Could it be the actual fusebox ??? obviously the relay isn't supplying the power to the wire and it's new. Can I just grab one from a junkyard? Seems easier than taking it apart

swartlkk 02-09-2019 02:05 PM

You can grab a complete fuse/relay box out of the junkyard, but I believe there are two (or more) different underhood fuse box configurations. If I remember correctly there is a base and uplevel design to it. Just make sure that it has all of the same locations and terminals as your current box does and you should be set.

If you are getting all of the appropriate power & ground signals to the box, then that leaves the box as the problem. Odd as it may be, but that is why you test things out and by testing at the relay itself, you have verified everything to be working at the easiest location possible.

Matthewrcarrier 02-10-2019 10:34 AM

Alright problem is beyond me. Fuse box didn't work. So I said hell with figuring out the issue with the starter circuit and just bypassed the relay. Moved on to just getting the thing started. So I rented an actual fuel pressure tester hooked it up and had 58 psi. Thought I'd see what it read when it was cranking so I tried that and it started!!.... So I was like hrmmm turned it off hooked the starter relay back up just to see if it would start with the relay and what do you know the relay works now.... Wth.... It's almost as if hooking the fuel pressure gauge up released some kind of vapor lock type deal... I know that's impossible but idk why everything is all of a sudden working again. It makes no sense what so ever. Why would the relay all of a sudden just work again... Update.... Went to put it in drive and it died..... Won't start back up same issue really starting to think I should replace the PNP switch even though the readings are right cause I have fuel pressure... Ok check this out. I jump fuel relay port 30 and 87 for continuous power to my fuel pump it stays running soon as I put it in drive it dies... So I now have two jumpers one in my starter relay.... One in my fuel pump relay... And truck runs but dies in drive.... PNP?


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