Components in door/dash?
 

Hey guys ive had my Blazer about a week now and just installed my Kenwood kdc-352u HU. Looks like i have the passanger front and both rear door speakers blown and out of working order. Im looking to install either Alpine or Infinity coaxials in the rear doors. As for the front im thinking about Alpine type-s components or a Cadence cmw-6 component set. What would be the simplest way to install the component set? As for the front speaker set it is about the ease of instsllation. Alpines have no crossover just a sort of "bass blocker" attached on the woofer to seperate whats going to the tweeter. They sound good but if instslling the other kit would be as easy I will install the Cadence set. Can you just install in relative locations coonect the wires on the speakers and its good to go? I just want to make surr its running at a final 4ohm load. Thanks in advance.

Alpine componants have a inductor attached to the woofer prolly in series, and in the box find a XO to be all connected in series( plus and minus) to the tweeter. Just bought a pair yesterday. Havnt figured where to put the tweet yet. If in the door the XO will go in the door handle with construction foam. If the tweet goes in the stock location, the XO will eliminate the stock bass blocker. Where is Alton? I know he's around here somewhere.

The highest, furthest forward area of the door is best imo, unless you go A-Pillar. I prefer sail panel placement typically, but we don't have that option.

Can't believe I didn't see this thread before. Okay, first off, that's a tough choice between the Cadence and the Alpine. Both are very close in price (Cadence $60, Alpine's $75, both free shipping) and very close with the target audience they're designed for. I've not had a chance to listen to the Cadence components in person, but I have heard the Alpine's. For $75 it's pretty hard to beat the sound quality and output they provide in their price range.

As for which would be easier to wire up, that's really a draw. Because components have the separate crossovers, no matter how simple or complex, they require running more wires than any combination of coaxials and that's about the only downside to using them. No matter where you mount the crossover you'll have to add at least two new wires and run them to the crossover and one of the speakers at a minimum. You could, mount them up in behind the dash for example, hook the wires directly from the HU to the crossover mounted in the dash, hook the factory front door speaker wires up to the mid/woofer terminals. You would still have to run a separate wire to the tweeters from the crossover. The factory wiring was never designed for connecting components. That being said, if you don't have a qualm with running your own wires wherever they need to go then there won't really be any difference from one set to the other as to the simplicity of wiring them.

Tweeter placement is dependent on quite a few things. First being your own listening preferences, second the response of the tweeter itself and third being your installation skills or whether or not you are willing and able to install them in a custom location. The tweeters in my van are on top of the dash as far forward as they can go on axis. That's where they sounded the best to me. In my Jimmy the best location to my ears was right above the mid in the door card. The best way to find the best location for the tweeter is to give them a good length of wire and use some kind of tape to adhere them to different locations. Listen to that location for a few days (a week would be better) and then try another location. Once you've found the location that sounds the best to you install them there and permanently run the wires. That's the best way to do it. Otherwise if you're not that concerned about it just pick a spot you're comfortable with and put them there.

Components are the best choice for great sound but they have to be correctly installed. Since there are separate parts they have to be installed so that they work together the way they were designed to or the advantages to using them are wasted. Plus basic installation techniques that should be practiced no matter what kind of speaker is being used are always recommended. Replacing the flimsy cheap factory plastic baffle with something solid like one made from wood is an important one. Installing at least a little bit of sound deadening can make a noticeable difference in response. The better the overall installation is the better the value of the purchase is no matter how expensive or inexpensive.

As it's been stated before, a great speaker can sound like garbage in a less than ideal installtion and a less than great speaker can sound amazing in a great installation.

Well i went ahead with the Alpine kit soley on the fact that the crossover is wired inline to the tweeter. I did this in partial atempt to get the easiest install of components. It all wired in nicely. I cut the stock tweeter mounts and installed them there. That and drilling new speaker holes was what took the longest. Overall I am very pleased with the way it sounds. I actually think the tweeters sound very nice in the stock location. And the bass response and mids are much more punchy and full than any coaxial speaker ive owned including previous type-s speakers. Im in love with the sound.

I really did want to give the Cadence set a try because they look very nice and have a pretty large magent. Plus ive heard good talk about them. Maybe I will try them in the summer or just install them into my SVT. But they deffinetly look to be the best components to be had for under $75 next to the Alpines IMO.

Thanks for the replys guys.

The logic for stock location for the tweets would be based on sound stage hight and path length difference. Just my guess as I havnt tried either of Altons suggestions. Even considering the stock location there are a few variables, Do you mount them in the cardboard baffel aimed at the windshield or mount them on a custom baffel angled back to your ears, Do you mount them under the grill and protect the silk from the sun or mount them flush directly in the stock grill? IDK I do like Altons labor intensive speaker box/baffel. I might just coat the blue boxes with about 1/2 inch of bondo as I have seen some insainly expensive home speaker cabinets made out of the stuff. ( $125,000.) Another concept I have been thinking about is biamping with a 4ch head unit as they are only about 18w per ch That way a front to rear fade could be used as eq

Bi-amping with the HU wouldn't allow the fader to do anything more than fade from one to the other as that is all it's function can do. Or in other words it would only lower the output from either the tweeters or the mids. The same thing as the balance does from left to right. Neither can adjust any of the frequencies that are played like an EQ can. The biggest problem with doing something like that is that unless the component set's crossover was specifically designed to do bi-amping (a few do exist) then the mids and tweeters would not have their respective signals properly adjusted as far as the response goes. The external crossover performs that function with inductors and capacitors that work together to provide a LP filter for the mid so it doesn't play high frequencies it's physically incapable of and a HP filter for the tweeters so they don't play low frequencies that are impossible for them to do.

Now if you have a HU with active crossover capabilities (like the Clarion CZ702) or external processor like a JBL M8, Apline Imprint, or any other of the like you can run the components active, or without the passive crossover. The processor (external or built into the HU) can filter the right frequencies for the right speaker and everything can work. However, if a person is going to go through that kind of cost and trouble then they would get MUCH better results from hand picking the tweeters and mids from a selection of separate drivers rather than take an off the shelf set of components and using them without the passive crossover. There are only a handful of components on the market whose tweeters and mids can stand on their own against the results that can be had with some truly outstanding separate speakers.

It all comes down to what a person is willing to pay, how much work they're willing to do to get those truly outstanding results. Just as an example I know a guy who built a Honda Accord with 3" Fostex full range speakers in custom made pods on the dash, 12" Aura woofers in custom built baffles/enclosures in the doors and a single 15" Fi BTL sealed to the cabin behind the back seat. The results are phenomenal with overall frequency response, staging and imaging that absolutely belies the size of the car and midbass punch that can only be described as EPIC. All processed by an Alpine 9886 and matching processor.


Well, that was much more lengthly than I planned, lol. The baffles for my truck weren't as labor intensive as you might think and a person can make them shallower to stay behind the factory grille too. Anything more solid than the plastic is better than the plastic. As for the tweeters, aiming anything at glass has the potential for dire effects in reponse. Instead of going into length on it as I've already gone on too long I suggest searching the internet for it. There's plenty of information out there on why it's a bad idea. You probably wouldn't need to build any sort of custom baffle for the tweeters to aim on axis toward you as most component sets come with flush and angle mount cups for the tweeters.

HI there, I have an alpine deck upgrade and also replaced the 6x9's in the back on a 1993 S10 Blazer, w-series 2 door. I also invested in upgrading the front doors and dash with the Alpine 6.5 type r component speakers. How is the best way to install? Pay a professional $100 bucks? Can anyone help with instructions on i how to cut and install the 6.5 in the front door? The tweeters can go anywhere really....even in dash. thanks

Should have made your own post
But in order to install components in a first gen in the doors, you will need fiberglass pods made, not enough depth in the panels to house them, anywhere up front in the first gen blazers you will need some custom fiberglass work done, whether its the kick panels or the doors. You will be looking at more than 100 to install them with the work that will need to be done. because first gens did not come with speakers in the doors Just the 4x6ers in the dash.

Well im done with my speaker setup. The components have been in for awhile now. Love them. Much better than any full range. Im currently working on insralling an Alpine KTP-445U that i got for a measly $40. Im going to install it in the center console where the factory tape deck was until I removed it. Couldnt stand seeing it there with no purpose anymore. And ill soon be dynamating the entire front doors. Im very pleased with the sq without even having them amped so im pretty pumped to get that done.

Next will be a double din nav system and a 10" single sealed(probably) woofer. On that note has anyone had any experience with the RE Audio SRX10?

Ill also try and upload a few quick snapshots of the tweeter mounts and where my power pack is in case someone is curious.

That's awesome to hear! I'm glad they're working out for you. If you like it now just wait until you get the sound deadening done. You should, at the very least, install the CLD (the mat, like dynamat or second skin damplifier) and a good layer of CCF or closed cell foam. The CLD will help with resonances and the CCF will take care of rattles. Together they make quite a dramatic difference on the in vehicle response. I have had great luck with RaamAudio's UOI peel 'n stick closed cell foam. Their BXT II CLD or sound deadening mat is a pretty strong product as well and priced competitively. If you're more concerned about the performance of the sound deadening than you are on the cheapest prices Second Skin's Damplifier and OverKill are a little better than Dynamat or the Raammat and SDS (Sound Deadening Showdown) products are second to none IMHO. Though they're all pretty competitively priced and don't vary a great deal from one to the next. My best recommendation is to do all the research you can before buying any sound deadening products to get the best bang for your buck. Stay away from brands like FatMat because it's not real butyl rubber. Anything that claims its a rubberized compound, or a mix, or anything like that is actually asphalt based and not what you want to be using.

RE audio used to be a lot better, I was thinking about getting one, then Searched around on the internet, and found the quality in the last few years has dropped, a lot.

RE Audio used to be owned and operated by Scott Atwell (I think that's the right last name) who is now the owner of Ascendant Audio and Fi Car Audio and OEM's for several other brands like SSA. Rich is right, RE's quality and performance isn't what it used to be, though they're still on par with many other well known and liked brands.

I recommend Fi and SSA a lot because they truly make some of the best products for the money and they're built right here in the US. At the price point of the SRX I would suggest the Alpine Type R. They've proven themselves worthy performers over the years, especially for the price. If you don't mind paying a little more for a really great sub the SSA DCON is a killer performing sub that surprises everyone who tries one for the first time. HERE'S A REVIEW by a guy who just switched to a pair of the 15" DCON's from a pair of 15" Sundown SA's. If you wanted to get something that's rated to handle a bit more power the SSA GCON and Fi X series are rated for 750wrms and are just as underestimated.

For some reason there's a lot of people who think a sub needs to be able to take at least 1kw to get loud. The beauty of every one of these I've mentioned is that they'll get plenty loud enough for the average user on much less power, but they offer dynamics, detail and sound quality that very few can at their price points. That's where they make their case on their performance per dollar.

While I am open to new suggestions on subwoofers I am only limited to a select range. I have looked into the SSA and Fi woofers. Unfortunately it looks like almost all of them are out of my price range. Im looking for a speaker with good price/SQ compromise. I would say $150 is around the top of my budget. But if I found a great driver for a bit more I would highly look into it. The RE Audio is actually at the low end of my budget but have seen nothing but good things other than what you guys have said. And I truely believe about how they have diminished in quality recently I believe for the price it might be worth trying one out. I have a .75 cu. ft. sealed box and a 1.3 cu. ft. Ported box. But I am almost positive I will run the sealed setup. I recently had a JL 10W3v2 in it at 300wrms and loved the clean sound. It was quite as loud of the type-r 12s ive had at 500wrms ported. But they were not nearly as clean like the jl in a sealed setup. As for rhe amplifier I am running, I am using a Kenwood Excelon 500-1. Awhile back I got a good deal on it. I have been pleased with its performance and plan to keep it at 500wrms. So im really looking for a 300wrms+ sub. Though I know that some quality names can handle more clean power than rated.

And as for the deadener I have heard of those brands and I know that they are better and probably would spend the extra buck for them. But today I was given a Dynamat door kit for free as a gift.

I know the KTP-445U is also not the best amp for sq but fit within my budget as well.

Ive also looked into the Focal P25 DB.. What do you guys think of this woofer. I would imagine with a brand like Focal sq would be fairly nice for $149 and could run my amp to it without any issues.

The DCON 10 is only $147 shipped, so it fits within your budget. My sister is currently running a 12" DCON on a Cadence amp giving it 500wrms and it's doing extremely well. Besides that there's generally nothing wrong with having some headroom and some SQ purists will run double and triple the rated RMS power to a driver. It's not for everyone to do, but I think in your case you're fine. If the RE is a the low end of your budget and you've had a Type R before then going with something like the DCON or even that Focal is your best bet. Since you're wanting something with quality like that of the JL you had before, I sure wouldn't be shorting myself with something like the RE if I were you.

That amp may not be a full size amp, but I wouldn't count it out for the purpose of sounding good either, especially since you got such a good deal on it. Being built by Alpine I feel it will output it's rated 45wrms as clean as anything else they produce. It's also extremely awesome that you got the Dynamat as a gift, it's always nice to get that kinda stuff when you're not expecting it!

Yeah I was happy to get the dynamat as ive been wanting to to get that started... But yeah I looked into the Decon more in depth and it looks like a great woofer. I think im gonna give that one a shot in the next couple of months. The basket looks like the older RE Audios.. Looks well built. And I noticed they also sell re-cone kits which is a plus.

Ive had a new thought today as well.

Its to install a coulpe midrange drivers under the front door swithes and run them off of the front and or rear channels of the HU. Im thinking of using some Bmw factory HK's as they are easy to pick up and can also get the door panel trim with them too.

What do you guys think on this idea?

They're solid performing subs for certain, you won't be disappointed. If you ever decided to try a ported enclosure in the future it will really surprise you.

I'd have to look into the BMW HK's, I'm not the least bit familiar with them. I'm having trouble following along as to how many speakers you're planning to end up with in each door. When it comes to SQ the fewer the sources of sound, the better off you are. In a perfect world the perfect speaker would be a pair of drivers that could play the entire 20hz to 20khz spectrum as flat as a marble tabletop. Such a speaker will never exist, it's physically impossible. That's why we use subs, woofers, and tweeters (for example) to cover the full spectrum of sound. Each driver is designed to reproduce a range in the audible spectrum and ideally/generally designed to do that well. The problem that creates is that it creates multiple places for the reproduced music to come from and our minds/ears are fully capable of tuning into those locations. Due to that the image and sound stage can sound skewed or out of place at best, at the worst it will cause cancellations, odd order distortions, and any combination thereof.

The moral of that novel is to keep it simple. Without processing using more than a couple of drivers per side will cause issues. Not knowing how to properly utilize the processor will make it even worse.

Can you post some pics of the installation as it stands now? Perhaps some pointers on what you've got now would be a better solution to the problem. Which brings me to another question, why do you want to change things so drastically if you're liking the Alpines?

Ehh im kinda just throwing out suggestions or ideas. Ive just seen a few cars that use a woofer, mid and tweeter up front. And ive heard that they sound very good factory. Maybe its just because the woofers cannot handle the range as well as an aftermarket unit. Im pretty new to the sq side of car audio btw. Ive been loud and now I would like to go more the direction of quality. I dont want to do anything to work against that.

Ive also seen a few things about the palcement of tweeters especially aiming off of the windshield. I do like the sound of them, they are beeter than previous full ranges ive had. Ive been considering moving the tweeters (temporarily) to the door panels in front of the door handles. Ive seen a few people do this in their trucks. Cant really put them in the front sail panel anyhow. Im thinking this might sound better yet. My friend has a Lincol LS with the same Alpine components up front. Tweeters mounted next to the sail panel area on the dash and it seems like it blends a bit smoother. So that has me really wanting to try another position with the tweeters.

Again the question about the midrange setup was just out of curiousity mainly from seeing similar setups in cars. I appreciate you guys helping me through all this stuff.

And I will try both a sealed and ported box. Im just thinking that I will like the sealed better because of the cleaner sound. My main concern with the ported box is that I dont want to overpower everything else . In my Contour the ported Alpine was kind of obnoxious actually I thought. Plus im thinking because this is an suv vs. a car due to the lack of a "barrier" between the trunk and the cabin, I may not need a ported box to achieve a level I like.

Ah I see, yeah, a properly setup 3 way system can sound absolutely amazing but throwing a few drivers together like that will not yield the results you're after. That's not to say you can't build a 3 way system, but it will require separate amps for each pair of drivers (woofer, midrange, tweeter, so 3 amps total) and a processor capable of doing a three way crossover combination (LPF for the woofer, LPF & HPF passband for the midrange, and HPF for the tweeter), digital time alignment all six channels, and a powerful parametric EQ to dial it all in with. Those processors exist in units like the miniDSP, JBL MS-8, Rockford 360, etc. and in HU's like the Clarion CZ702, Pioneer DEH-80PRS 880PRS, and any Alpine unit that's compatible with the Alpine PXA-700H add on processor. Then many hours of setup and tuning are required to dial in all that equipment.

It's doable, it's been done many times, but a poorly installed and setup 2 or 3 way active setup will often times sound worse than a well installed and setup passive component set. The cost, effort and experience that's involved with doing a 3 way setup is prohibitive for most users. There are 3 way passive components out there and though they have their own challenges to get setup properly, but that's not to say you can't get excellent results from them either. Proper attention to details on the installation is generally the key with them.

As for tweeter aiming, what you've read is accurate. The reflections and resonances that happen from aiming a tweeter at a windshield does not do them any favors. The best thing to do for tweeter placement is to get some double sided tape, or double over a couple of pieces of duct tape, and move them around. Try each location for several days giving ample opportunity to listen to the differences and make your own judgement and comparisons to the difference. Then whichever place sounded best to you is the spot you should permanently install them. Every speaker, vehicle and person's taste is different and it's worth going through the trouble of trying out every location you can to get the best possible results.

A ported enclosure can sound every bit as clean as a sealed, it just has to be properly designed and built. I would venture to guess the ported enclosure you had the Alpine in was a prefabbed enclosure. They're almost never designed for anything in particular and what's worse is that the design is usually tuned for maximum output, not good response. If you need help with a box design later let me know, I will be glad to help you with that. As for the sub overpowering the highs, that's relatively easy for ANY sub setup to do. That's what the gain and/or sub level on the HU is for, to dial the sub in to blend with the highs. It becomes a problem to do that on a poorly tuned enclosure though because they don't have a smooth response, so when it gets dialed back to blend with the front stage the deeper and sometimes higher bass notes can't be heard anymore. You're right though, you could very well get all the output you want and need now that you don't have to get the bass from a trunk to the cabin, but if you find yourself wanting more just ask and I can help you design a proper ported enclosure that will sound good no matter what kind of music you're playing at any volume level.