Fresh Rebuild 1996
 

So I did a rebuild on a 4.3 out of a '97 for my '96 blazer
got everything together fired it up and missed and shook real bad
after some messing with distributor and Im positive i set it to TDC on number according to piston position and dampener markings
now it runs so bad it wont pull its self, even when punching to full throttle it just barely revs up to where it should
I had it running decent but you could tell it was still not in time
Ive read a million different things and messed with the distributor more than i wanna admit.....
i did use the old ECM with a new crank & cam sensor so do I need to do the relearn procedure?
could that be the source of my issues?
it seemed to run better when i didnt have it set to TDC and 1 tooth advanced. (so was i"manually advancing it? or just throwing the fire order way off?)
i could try to undo what i did to get it to a shop, but then id have to change it back there so they could set it to "relearn"
i know im going to be IRATE if i put that dam crank sensor wheel on backwards.....
Im running low on ideas of what to do here....
I know before i set it for the last time that then scanner i was using was telling me the timing advance for cylinder 1 was 17 degrees....
the sound it makes when i give it gas is hard to describe, but kinda like its bogging down as in it got a "hollow" sound from exhaust. i could actually upload a video of it if that would help
at them moment though it really struggles to start and wont idle........

ok so i got it down to a shop
hooked it up and did all that jazz
now its still got a miss and scanner said cyc 4
i pulled plug and grounded it, sparked on crank
aside from pulling the VC how can i tell if a valve is stuck or if injector is bad?

Is the SES light on? If so what code(s). If not on, why isn't it on if you have a miss. Relearn or lack there of will not cause an actual felt misfire. Ignition timing is not based on distributor position, it is based on the crank sensor. However, distributor rotor must point to the right terminal at the right time to pass the spark. Rotor position is measured as Cam Sensor Retard which should be 0 +/- 2 degrees. Distributor is installed with engine on TDC #1 and the rotor pointing to the #6 cast in the cap mounting surface. Factory distributor hold down locks the distributor in place so it cannot be turned. Leaky valves are tested using a compression gauge. Individual injectors are not quite as easily diagnosed. Answer my questions and I will help.

ya the light was on, i fired it up without the plug in and no fuel was spat out.....
took the valve cover off cause a friend said it could be loose rocker or bent pushrod, those all looked good
then i drove it to autozone and they said its the crank position sensor
i have another one from the old engine im going to try out tonight see if it goes away
has anyone actually put the wheel on crank for sensor backwards before? im worried if i put it on backwards......
ive also read some stuff about needing shims with a new sensor?

Codes please

ill have to get the reader again tomorrow, they just said it was telling them misfire on cylinder 4 at the shop
and autozone said its crank sensor
im going to mess with it later on and see if maybe its not in right?


update : swapped CKP sensors and still the same miss.... i honestly cant remember my spider injectors being so loud????
i drove it around a bit seeing if it would change
no dice
but i did notice when i got back the exhaust/cat was "tinging" alot more than usual???
im going to double check if im getting fuel to that cyclinder or not

Stop expecting Autozone to diagnose your vehicle with their code reader. Codes do not tell you what part is bad. They only give you a starting point for diagnostics per factory diagnostic charts, which are included on this web site. You may or may not need information specific to your year of vehicle.

Better get a capable scanner if you want to work on a Blazer. If you have Android, for a 1996 Blazer I recommend Dash Command from google Play + in-app purchase of GM PIDs for your vehicle + BAFX Bluetoth OBD2 adapter as sold on Amazon. $10 + $10 + $23. If you have i-Phone, I recommend the same app (for iOS) but you will need a BAFX WiFi OBD2 adapter as sold on Amazon. This will get you all the GM Powertrain PIDs that you will need to effectively work on your Blazer, but won't do a crank sensor relearn (that takes much more expensive software).

trust me i have very little faith in auto zone lol. i just went there for my test drive, i was looking at getting a scanner name BlueDriver any opinions about that one? the one im borrowing is a Autel Maxidas DS708
I've worked on cars for years, but never bought a scan tool, but after watching a few videos about them I wish I had one that would show me all the data I can get lol.
If I can get the scanner tonight it will be at about 10pm server time i think, or in about 4hrs when I will post again the codes

From the Blue Driver web site below - note the last line. May work, or it may not work for enhanced PIDs (especially on a 1996 Blazer). I have no Idea. Sounds like they have an incomplete set of enhanced PIDs. I do know that Dash Command with the add-in PIDs does work, and Blue Driver seems a bit pricier than Dash Command. Your choice. If you do get Blue driver, and it does the enhanced PID "Cam Sensor Retard" or "CMPRET" on your Blazer be sure to let us know. That is my gold standard for the apps when working on these Blazers. Not many apps will do it, especially on a 1996.

Reading/clearing codes, pretty much anything will do that - so you're OK with the Autel for that.
---------------------------

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Its telling me P1345
Crankshaft & Camshaft correlation
I assume this is cause i have not done a relearn, nor can i figure out how on this scanner
hopefully i take it to the shop tomorrow and they can do the relearn and that will clear the code and then my misfire will stop......
I pulled the entire spider injectors off tonight, #4 was pretty dirty but after cleaning and putting it all back together still the exact same...

Nope, distributor is not in on the right tooth. Almost always the reason for a P1345. See post #3 for further explanation and how to correct. Forget the crank sensor and injectors and relearn - and put the distributor in right. Your problem is easily fixed.

ok ill move it in the morning and see where that puts me,
I noticed the scanner was telling me CMP retard was at -39. dunno if that matters
ill try to move it 1 tooth counterclockwise

just noticed you are in Indiana! Terre Haute myself!

L
Glad to hear your borrowed scanner reads CMP retard on your 1996!! Can you please review the scanner model one more time for my own reference. Yeah CMP retard should be 0 +/- 2 to be optimal but will run much better of you can get it below 6 or so.

Welcome to a fellow Hoosier!

Turned it 1 tooth, started backfiring...
2 teeth the other way and miss is gone!
At shop now to read it and do relearn

Glad to hear you're making progress. What is cam sensor retard value now? I assume the SES light is off. Don't attempt a crank sensor relearn if SES light is still on.

OK so 96 doesn't have a relearn according to their scanner lol
But no more codes and been running like a champ
I checked the cmp retard b4 i left it was at 16
Which is weird cause I thought I only moved it 1 tooth total and went from -39 to 16?
Is it something that needs tuned in the PCM??
Would the tool you recommended do that?

1996 certainly does have a crank sensor relearn but it's not going to affect a misfire one way or another (just your ability to detect misfires). But we definitely need to get that cam sensor retard closer to zero, and probably need to replace the cap/rotor if it has been jumping to the wrong terminal inside (that could be up to you). Are you able to loosen the clamp bolt and turn your distributor body, or is it locked in place by the factory hold-down clamp? Nothing needs "tuned" in the PCM. The tool I recommend will read the cam sensor retard correctly and is great for working on 1996 Blazers but it will not do a crank sensor relearn. I had to spend $350 on software (HP tuners VCM Scanner) and use a laptop and a hardwire OBD2 adapter before I could do crank sensor relearns. But I always use the bluetooth phone apps whenever possible - it's just so much more convenient. I always have the phone in my pocket and the little Bluetooth OBD2 adapter in the vehicle. I very seldom need to drag out the laptop. Please advise about your distributor hold down and if you can turn the distributor body or not..

it has the factory clamp down, im pretty sure it only gained 1 tooth but i could be wrong? iv read about people slotting the brackets to get a little bit of turn to them also?
I also noticed the scanner you recommended says it doesnt do ABS my wifes car has an abs light that comes up every so often, any preference on one that will do ABS?

i dont want to keep borrowing the shops scanner so im going to have to order one b4 i can take it any further

Sorry, Dash Command does not do ABS and it's the only one with cam sensor retard that I have verified works on a 1996 Blazer. Car Gauge Pro will do lots of ABS stuff on CAN protocol Fords (2006+) and even reads wheel speeds, etc, but only reads/clears ABS codes on GM and will not do GM enhanced PIDs at all on 1996/97 Blazers. Once you hit 1998, Car Gauge Pro does the most for a phone app on a Blazer. But with Car Gauge Pro when you hit 2006 you are done with GM enhanced PIDs (but not with Ford). It's really kind of a crap shoot and very confusing between different make/models/years on the phone apps. Dash Command gets around this by selling you PIDs for your specific vehicle from inside the app once you have connected, but they don't do ABS. Doubt if one app is going to work for everything you throw at it. Fortunately, they are really cheap once you have the Bluetooth OBD2 adapter. Point is that you may find that a different app works best with your wife's car. I have Dash Command, Car Gauge Pro, Torque Pro, Scan XL Pro (windows), and HP Tuners VCM scanner (windows) - each one has it's benefits. As for Hand-held scanners, I really don't have a recommendation since I have little experience with them. Depending on the cost, maybe you will want to get a scanner like the one you borrowed.

Gotta remember that the communication protocols on Ford, GM, and Chysler are not all the same, and have changed over the years. Since 2006 they have all now standardized on CAN protocol, but each manufacturer's enhanced PIDs are not standardized and can even vary from year to year. As an example, Dash Command is the only phone app I have that will do enhanced PIDs on my 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP (first year of CAN protocol). Car Gauge Pro will connect to it in generic mode only. Torque Pro will not connect at all. This is all through the same OBD2 adapter and phone. The Windows software has no problem with the G6, but it's $150+ software. I believe that even newer GM vehicles have yet another OBD2 hurdle, but I'm not up on that. Remember, the car manufacturers have no motivation to make their enhanced PIDs work with any equipment other than their own. If an outside manufacturer of equipment or software wants them, the enhanced PIDs are for sale. I believe this is why some software/apps (Dash Command) charges you extra for them. The ones that don't charge you, apparently have figured out enough of them to be useful (Car Gauge Pro, Torque Pro, etc) - at least on certain vehicles.

Yep, slotting the bracket or replacing with a small block chevy distributor hold down was what I was going to suggest - but only if you can read cam sensor retard. Once you have an adjustable distributor, just monitor cam sensor retard while turning the distributor. Be sure to rev it above 2000 and back to idle before doing a final read on the cam sensor retard.

If your SES light is off, you're not feeling any misfires, and you want to know if you need a CASE relearn - then monitor the misfire counters on a scanner while pulling plug wires. Counter should increase rapidly for the disconnected cylinder. If it does this, then misfire detection is working fine and there is really no need or advantage to doing a CASE relearn.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the info!!! Really appreciate it!!!
The one I used was pretty extensive and had the ability to be ugdated. I would love to buy one like the scanner I borrowed, but it looks like it maybe little out of my price range. I will let you know once I order me a scanner or I'll just give in and borrow it again. The SES light has gone away and I don't notice a miss anymore! I should be able to get a hold down relatively easy.
Thanks again, I will pop back in once I have an update.

Please let us know how you end up. We always like to know!

How can I tell if I have a L35 or a LF6 engine?
It came from a 97 s10 I no longer have access to
I took pics of the numbers off the block though

Engine light came back on today, but scanner is supposed to arrive tomorrow atleast!

This is what I'm getting from the scanner
SES was on cause O2 sensor
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/blazerf...9196a4cafb.png

Alright, lets get that Cam sensor retard adjusted to zero and then we can work on any other problems that are still there. Is this Blue Driver on your phone?

Na I got dash command and the bafx scanner
I read there can be 15° of leway just moving the distributor around with the normal clamp. I'll try that tonight

Guess the blue bar at the top tricked me - Dash Command is black on my phone, and it seemed like the high and low values were labeled as such. Is this the Android or the iPhone version? I couldn't get mine 6° turned with the factory clamp on a new distributor. But you can take grinder to the bolt hole and elongate it to give a little turn. Unfortunately, most clamp modification or clamp removal operations require the distributor to be removed.

On a side note.... Now that you have the BAFX OBD2 adapter, if you are doing Android you should be able to use Car Gauge Pro to (at least) read/clear the ABS codes on your wife's car (if not more). What car does she have? It doesn't hurt to have more than one OBD2 software available to you and Car Gauge Pro is pretty cheap.

She has a 03 ford escape
Its for android
I'll grab that app as well!!!!
I do have the old engine that I could maybe modify it's hold down to be the way I want? I assume it would involve grinding off the 2 "prongs" that go around the distributor shaft?
I also used dash commander to make a log of me driving about a mile through town
I was reading that the cam retard is connected to my injectors pulsing, so could this give me a code relating to my o2 sensors and fuel trim?

Just remember that Car Gauge Pro is unfiltered - so everything that appears there does not work. Just Connect/Ford/Scan All Faults or Connect/Ford/Clear All Faults for the basic ABS code functions (and other things too). You can try the ABS module instead of the All Faults choices and might get some Ford ABS PIDs to work, but I'm not sure about 2003. The ABS module and some PIDs worked on my 2008 Ford Ranger, but it was CAN protocol and this is different from your 2003 Escape. Just try it and see. If it doesn't work at all for you, just email the developer right away and he will refund you. Let me know.

Yes you can grind the prongs so you can turn the distributor, but difficult to get it off the distributor unless it's removed from the engine. Actually that's what I did to mine instead of the bolt hole thing (but other people seem to prefer the bolt hole method).

The PCM does use the position from the cam sensor to sequentially pulse the injectors. I have never heard of cam sensor retard being off causing O2 sensor codes, but I suppose it is possible since yours is off quite a bit more than is usually seen. This is why I suggested that we fix the cam sensor retard before worrying about anything else.

Ok, so I loosened it and tried to move it as much as factory would allow, cmp went up to 19....
So do you think I should try and move it another tooth, slot the bolt hole ( dunno if that's gonna give me enough?), or make/get a Chevy distributor hold down????

13 teeth so 360/13=27.7 degrees per tooth. I'm guessing it would go to neg 8 by moving it 1 tooth, which is probably where it really should be falling with the factory hold down. Probably should do the adjustable hold down to get to zero since you now have the equipment to set CMP retard. First you might want to check your distributor gear for wear by checking slop in the position of the rotor. Does it have new timing chain? Any slop or chain stretch or wear adds up to negative CMP retard in relationship to the crank sensor. See how that works?

Or you could move it a tooth and leave it on neg 8. Would be better than what a lot of people are running with.

Ok, I can't thank you enough for that scanner info!
Here's what I made, but wife wanted me to wait till this weekend to mess with it cause it's running now. She has caught on how when u mess with a car there's always that chance that it can get more complicated than what u "plan" to do lol.
Here's a pic of what I did
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/blazerf...5e2912639f.jpg

As long as it locks it down that will be great. Good job!

I had to bend the tips down to get it to grip,
For future reference do that b4 u cut it lol

ok got it down to 6 @2k rpm's
its idling at about 550, hasnt died on me yet but i get nervous sometimes lol
im not sure i could get it better cause im worried about putting it in a bind? We had it hit 0, but no matter when we tighten it then it goes back to 6
is 6 acceptable???? how acceptable??
i did notice wear on the drive gear, but no worse than the old distributor.
i also have replaced the cap and rotor
ignition wise everything is less than a year old easy

Why not over adjust so it winds up at zero when you're all done? Is the cam sensor retard changing every time that you rev the engine? Is the distributor body hitting something?

It does change when it revs up
I will make another attempt today to try and lower it more

Might be that distributor gear. Mine changes less than 2 degrees at all times warm/cold/idle/at speed (this was with a new distributor). But you could split whatever your (cam sensor retard) range is around zero and deal with things later if any problem remains or any problems develop. How much does it vary? 6 degrees max?

OK I got it down to where it's 0 at 2k
And only varies by less than 1
I'll watch it and check to see if it shifts
I got it and drove around some more and called it good

Since the original problem is solved I can make another thread about the o2/lean/high trim
Ordeal of need be.


I've got the error for sensor 1 and 3 co2 heater being bad, no SES light yet though

Also gotta track down my fuel tank ground
High voltage from level sensor

I notice that it has an ocasional "cutout" when I go from a stop to mid throttle for maybe a split second.
I made a bunch of logs but haven't done anything with them


High trim % means it's running lean or rich???

Great! So we're done with Cam Sensor Retard.

Actually I think there is some value in keeping the same thread so readers can get the entire picture of what has been done. But you can do what you like if you want to start a new thread. Lots of people seem to start a new thread for everything.

High trim % means the PCM is adding fuel to the standard calibration from the factory, in order to give the correct mixture as determined by the O2 sensor. If the SES light is not on, then it has been successful. For example, a small vacuum leak would give a higher than normal positive fuel trim at idle and the problem would lessen as RPM goes up.. A dribbling injector would give a negative fuel trim. An O2 sensor problem could go either way. But during normal operation, Long Term Fuel Trim and Short Term Fuel Trim should add up to less than 10.

Let's talk about the O2 sensor heater error that you mentioned. How are you detecting that? How is it manifesting?

I'm curious if you ever got Car Gauge Pro for your wife's ABS problem, and if it works in generic mode on your Blazer? Don't worry, we can work on your Blazer with Dash Command. I'm just curious.