@ Sisk:

@ Tony: While it is true that newer crap has newer stuff that requires other newer stuff to fix it, it has been this way FOREVER. everytime something new comes around, it's going to be that way...
think how pissed the cats building horse carts must have been the first time some rich d**k in a model t rolled in like "yo, fix me up m8!"

try getting a 99 H1's TC codes read.... the scanners are readily available, just fork over the cash for a toy you will RARELY, if ever, use and you're ready to rock and/or roll.
one or the other, never both, and there is no prefered method.

think of how many people bitched via telegraph (or some crap) when the first Fuel Injected ride's started breaking down in the 50's (or when ever)....
"let's just have a look at your carb then"
"nope i have fuel injection"


the times, they are-a-changin'. and technology with it. ever try to send a CD player to apple to fix?
try to jam a NES cartidge in you blu-ray player on the PS3? stuff will ebb and flow mang!

 

I agree with this somewhat, but the examples given above hold no water... some intakes are made from plastic, but the word "plastic" encompasses many types of materials, not just tupperware lids, plastic intakes work the same as cast aluminum, or cast iron. I used to work at a plant that designed and made some of the GM plastic intake manifolds. And so what if you have lock-in-lock-out hubs, the CV or U-joints, which ever the case may be, may still be turning depending on your transfer case. So the statement may be true in some cases. Besides, half shafts are so cheap today I don't even bother to rebuild them anymore. Have you seen the new CV replacements for u-joints? What a great idea! They next u-joint I wear out or break in my jeep axle will be replaced with a new CV instead.
If you don't like the new stuff, get a pre-1995 auto to drive. I have a friend who wont buy anything newer so he does not have to deal with computers, etc.
We as owners should always have the option to do our own repairs. Period.

 

was it just the foreign companies that started doing this? all i saw was honda cars.

 

I was on my phone earlier, so I couldn't really do a long or that opinionated post... but here's my on this topic..

It sounds like another conspiracy theory to me....along with all the others we seem to be seeing on the forum lately. Just a load of people that have nothing better to do but sit around and think up conspiracies that the government, or in this case car companies are doing to take over the world and rip off the everyday consumer.
Although I do agree with some of what is said I'm 100% with Kyle. We can't even begin to discuss the topic as I don't think any of us have (at least I sure don't lol) the knowledge and expertise that goes into engineering and manufacturing today's vehicles. I'm also in agreeance with Kyle that even today's vehicles can be fixed at home quite easily. I don't think there are that many of these "specialty" dealer only tools as they claim. Just because they make a specific tool for something doesn't mean you only have to use that tool on it. There are other ways to repair it at home and other ways to work with it. Anyway as I said just another loony conspiracy theory in my eyes. I'll go make myself my tinfoil hat now . I can see this turning into another Thomas post very easily (I'm officially making that a valid reference here on the forum lol).

 

Regards

Thomas

LMAO

 

JAJAJAJA thomas....

Swartllkk, you have a point, cars like lil civics and cobalts, and focuses are made to be cheap, and made to be made fast.... Designers take time to make sure things work 100% with less than 6sigma when its more luxurious like a Lambo... but thats the cost difference...

Also note that sometimes plastic materials are used not to break but because... TADA.. it works... Look in a lawnmower and take it back if you got a plastic cam.... they will laugh at you.... but you are not complaining about a lawnmower are you? Its just the fact that a designer (future engineer here) has two things in mind before the final

1Cost

2Safety

Every job an engineer does it based upon saving money and lives... so when you see a car built, sure it takes designs from older vehicles BUT... the cost and safety are number 1/2 and vice versa, depending on the company cost can be more important than safety, and I wonder..... this...

Has anyone sued a car manufacturer after replacing a part from autozone because that part failed? If this were to have happened then the Manufacturers are going "HEY, COVER YOUR ***, because people are ignorant...."

Sorry if I was out of line or angry or anything, but to design something you have to have constraints.... unless you work for Ferrari... then Swing Away...

William.out.lolz

AS LUVMYTJ pointed out... new cv joints > u joints.... there is a company in Northern IL working on testing to get them out for every application.... and because of the larger surface area, properly made, they can be STRONG!!!!

 

Gotta go along with Kyle & Sisk on this.

This is the price paid for progress. At some point things are designed to work, not particularly how they fit together in the overall package. As long as they work. To try simplify how to make things accessible / easy to work on is secondary as this involves more time with the resultant increased costs. Then they still need to squeeze it all into the required available space.

Then don't forget the never ending race to get the vehicle into production before the opposition. No time to fuss over things like how or who's gonna work on it.

So in short, if GM (or whoever) spent time building a vehicle for Joe Shmoe to fix in his driveway on the cheap then said Joe Shmoe won't be able to afford said vehicle! LOL

S**t. I could go on & on AND argue for & against the manufacturers.

Lastly, has anyone complained about how computers are built? How many guys can fix their laptops on the kitchen table? LOL

P.S. If I sound ignorant about these things it's probably because I am. LOL

 

I deal with this at work, there is nothing like sending a truck form a repair shop to the dealership just to get it scanned becuase you cannot get the software needed to properly diag a vehicle.

 

You know what they say Curt. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

 

I am getting into this discussion a bit late and really have nothing to add. Everything I was going to say has been said already. And my tin foil hat from the other topic is still in tip top shape!

That being said, if you REALLY want to look at a company that requires so many special tools to work on their products, look no further than Bombarier (formerly OMC). Can't really speak for other outboard manufactures but I've been to a few classes for OMC and realized one thing right off the bat: You can't fix much on their outboards, let alone diagnose, without the specific year manual and the specialty tools.