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Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Started
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Well I went ahead and pulled all the interior trim, fixtures and carpet. An this is what I found.
[IMG] http://photobucket.com/pre-reapair_rust_86k_5 I figure I can just cut out the sheet metal for the floor pans and side but I'm thinking my best bet for the body mount brackets, which is really hard to see in the photos, is to buy new ones from LMC anybody got a better suggestions? And looks like the old Ziebart undercoating has been sprayed all over the (*&%^ place. Any good ways to remove this so I'm not getting high while I weld? |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
im in the same boat right now too, i just cut the tailpan out and a little bit of the floor, but found that the place where the tailpan meets the boxside is all rusted to hell so now its new boxsides, i really wish i hadn't started this, but i guess ill learn from this mistake. Is your blazer Tan on brown, mine is the exact same, even has the exact same rust on it!
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Yep. Same color and everything. My tail pan doesn't seem to bad as yours though. Just at the corners. Figure I'll just cut out the crap and weld some new steel in. I was hoping to find a salvage yard nearby where I could rob some parts but the DC area only seems to have cars. or it could be that all the parts for theses vehicle have been bought already by other people in the same boat. Even 80's pick ups are impossible to find. I guess it's LMC and JC whitney for me. Gonna start cutting here today so we'll see just how bad it REALLY is.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Well okay that last "Started" my have been a bit premature. Now we're into it in earnest. Will definitely be slow going as I just completed my first ever "real" weld. I don't count welding 3/4' steel together with dirt dobber's nests. But after a "few" tries I think i'm on the right track. What a pain the you know what when one burns through. Oh well build up and grind down til it's right. I think it probably would have been easier to remove the tailgate to do this but I don't really have a secure place to store the truck so it's not worth taking it off and putting it back on everyday. I'm photo-document everything to help me learn from my...ahem mistakes. If anybody sees anything that might help please speak up.
Here's progress so far: http://photobucket.com/86k5inprogress |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Looks good. What are you using for a welder? Wire size? I use 0.023 wire for sheet metal and I will typically start out right on the recommended amperage and wire speed for the material thickness.
One thing to always do with sheetmetal is to do very small spot welds and jump around a lot to keep the heat down. For the piece you were working on, warpage will likely not be a problem, but by keeping the heat down, you will be less likely to blow through. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
.023??...no wonder I'm struggling. Using the roll of .035 innershield that came with it. I figured the tailpan steel was thick enough to handle it. I'll have to check out some thinner stuff.
Put a drop box out by the HWY sometime and when I drive through I put some beer in it. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
You can weld with 0.035 wire, but it will take a bit more heat with it. 0.023 is just easier with the thinner stuff.
So you are using flux core? Do you have a gasless MIG or do you also run shielding gas? What is the welder you are using? Some people have had great success with running a flux core wire with sheetmetal, but I have never been fond of it. I have put quite a bit of wire through my Miller 140 and I prefer C25 with 0.023 wire for sheetmetal. Get up to 1/8" and I will use 0.035" solid core wire. I do not like flux core unless it is too windy where I am welding for shielding gas to do its job properly. That is the only case where I will use it. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I'm using the Lincoln 140HD.
Couldn't find .023 in flux cored so tried the .030. What a difference. Still can't really run a bead more than an inch at a time but that might just be me. I'm not patient by nature so it took me awhile to figure out to weld spots or really short runs at a time. Practically cut my time in half. What's difference using shielding gas a solid core wire versus flux core? The welder is equipped to handle shielding gases, even came with the hoses and regulator. Lincoln's "Innershield" at .030 wire seems to do a pretty good job. Update from last night. http://photobucket.com/86k5inprogress The fun begins today welding the thin stuff together. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
The biggest difference, IMO, between flux core and solid wire is that you do not have slag left behind to protect the weld. What you see is what you get. You also have better control of the heat with a solid wire since you can go to a smaller wire to keep the heat affected zone small. With smaller wire, you also have the ability to create a shallower weld pool which will minimize the tendency to burn through as well as the work required to level the weld afterwords.
When I mentioned C25 earlier, that is 25% CO2, 75% Argon for the gas I use. Typical for mild steel welding. Here is a snippet from Lincolns FAQ: Q: Does shielding gas affect the quality of the finished weld? A: For most mild steel applications, CO2 will provide adequate shielding, but when you must have a flatter bead profile, less spatter or better wetting action, you may want to consider adding 75 to 90% argon to your CO2 shielding gas mix. Why? Argon is essentially inert to the molten weld metal and therefore will not react with the molten weld metal. When CO2 is mixed with Argon, the reactivity of the gas is reduced and the arc becomes more stable. But, Argon is more expensive. In production welding, selecting the perfect shielding gas can be a science of its own. Attributes such as material thickness, welding position, electrode diameter, surface condition, welding procedures and others can affect results. Common gas mixes for the home hobbyist and small fabricator would be: [ul][*]100% CO2 -Lowest price, generally greatest penetration, and higher levels of spatter. Limited to short circuit and globular transfer.[*]75% Argon - 25% CO2 -Higher price, most commonly used by home hobbyist and light fabricator, lower levels of spatter and flatter weld bead than 100% CO2. Limited to short circuit and globular transfer.[*]85% Argon - 15% CO2-Higher price, most commonly used by fabricators, with a good combination of lower spatter levels and excellent penetration for heavier plate applications and with steels that have more mill scale. Can be used in short circuit, globular, pulse and spray transfer.[*]90% Argon - 10% CO2- Higher price, most commonly used by fabricators, with a good combination of lower spatter levels and good penetration for a wide variety of steel plate applications. Can be used in short circuit, globular, pulse and spray transfer.[/ul] TRY C-25 SHIELDING GAS (75% Argon, 25% CO2 ) Q: Are there any other tips you can provide for higher quality MIG welding? A: Try a smaller diameter wire. Although the most common diameters of welding wire are .035” and .045”, a smaller diameter wire usually will make it easier to create a good weld. Try an .025” wire diameter, which is especially useful on thin materials of 1/8” or less. The reason? Most welders tend to make a weld that is too big - leading to potential burn through problems. A smaller diameter wire welds more stable at a lower current which gives less arc force and less tendency to burn through. If you keep your weld current lower, you will have a greater chance of success on thinner materials. This is a good recommendation for thinner materials; but be careful using this approach on thicker materials (>3/16”) because there may be a risk of lack of fusion. Whenever a change like this is made, always verify the quality of the weld meets its intended application. IMO, get yourself an 80cuft bottle of C25 and some 0.023 or 0.025 wire (proper drive rollers and tips may be required). In NY, the largest bottle you can own yourself is an 80cuft bottle. I have wondered many times if I should have just leased a tank, but oh well... I need to get mine filled again... As far as technique goes, I would not be trying to weld anything more than 1/8" to 1/4" tops every time you strike an arc. Move around A LOT to keep the heat down. This is key with welding sheetmetal, especially old sheetmetal that may be an inconsistent thickness onto new sheetmetal. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Do these tanks need to be inspected yearly and pressure test every five years?...I'm also into SCUBA and for that exact reason have never purchased my own tanks.
How much gas do you use, for lack of a better constraint, per foot or whatever of welding. Should a tank last 8-10 hrs? More/less? Trying to figure if its worthwhile to leas one if I might be moving again in about 2 mos. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I never really looked at how much gas I have been using. I just fill it up when the pressure drops off. It is $25 to fill it. I remember reading that the cost to fill a bottle of C25 was less over all than buying flux-core wire in terms of $$/foot welded, but I cannot find that info now...
As far as pressure testing, etc. I paid for the tank so I did not have to pay a yearly lease on it. Whenever I take it in to get filled, I get a different tank which is already filled. No worries about that... Here is another quote I found which is of interest to your project: note that after flux core welding auto body panels it is necessary to thoroughly clean the welds before grinding to remove any contaminants that may adversely affect adhesion of body filler and/or primer. Grinding the flux-core weld without thorough cleaning has the tendency to "smear" the contaminants into surrounding metal, compounding paint and filler adhesion problems |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
[blockquote]quote:
note that after flux core welding auto body panels it is necessary to thoroughly clean the welds before grinding to remove any contaminants that may adversely affect adhesion of body filler and/or primer. Grinding the flux-core weld without thorough cleaning has the tendency to "smear" the contaminants into surrounding metal, compounding paint and filler adhesion problems[/blockquote] That in itself makes the case for solid core wire. Do you think the weld through primer will have problem on the tailpan? Obviously i've already ground the welds. Wonder how to ameliorate the situation without starting over. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I would not worry about it there.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Cost? The guys around here want $155.00 for an 80 CFU tank.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
IIRC, I paid $90 for a full tank of C25 initially. $155 seems quite high to me. Also, I think it was going to be something like $20/year to lease a larger tank.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Oh well. When did you get that tank?? Even the online places I looked at Weldingsupply.com...etc. were all around 150. Called around must be the area. So I got one. Smallest I could get was .024"
What should I set the regulator to? The instruciton manual says from 30-45 cfh. The guy at the welding supply shop says 20-22cfh. I've found anywhere between 20 and 25 cfh on the web. I will be inside as the golf course will let me use their shop. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I bought all of my stuff well over a year ago now.
0.023 wire is what came with my welder. Use whatever the smallest wire is that you can buy. As far as the regulator setting, play with it between what the book says and what you have heard recommended. You will know by the sound if you are pushing enough gas. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Looks good so far post up more pics when you can:)
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Thanx. Probably tied up all weekend unless the weather cooperates and rains.
Starting to think about paint schemes. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Ok. So I think I need some advice on how to proceed here.
Inner and outer rockers need to be replaced. Both rear cab floor pans need to be replaced. Both rear cab mounts same. Best procedure? One side at a time. 1. Remove Rear Floor Pan. 2. R&R Cab Mount Bracket. then rockers? I'm not sure how best to go about replacing the rockers and the floor pans and still keep everything all lined up. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Well here's the next installment. Left tailgate post repaired. But now all of a sudden the tailgate is rubbing at the top when I close it.Wondering if the post sagged when there was no support at the bottom. Anybody know if the tailgate can be adjusted laterally (left/right)? If not I may be undoing what I did and using something to "spread the posts and re-building. We'll see.
Here's the pics. |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
These posts are very easy to move when some of the structure is removed. Welding did not help and probably pulled the post in. I would see what you can do to push the post back out. Try to use a jack or port-a-power to push it, but try not to push against the other post. You should mount something to the bed floor to push against. You should not need to undo anything you have done, just stretch it back out.
*EDIT* - From the look of your pictures, you need to pull in the passenger side and push out the driver side. You may find it difficult pulling in on the driver side... |
RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I'm thinking a come along hooked to the latch might pull the passenger side in. As far as pushing out the driver's side....maybe bolt something into the tailpan as a brace and then a jack? I'll play with it. If I find a nice and easy way to do this I'll let you know.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
A come-along is a good idea. Just do not pull against the other post.
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
Should I remove the top before doing this or does it matter?
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RE: Bed Floor Panel Replacement
I would. You could unbolt the top and prop it up in the back so it is off of the bed rail. That would serve the same purpose.
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Well I ended using a come along and 115 horsepower "porta-power", (Bulldozer) to pull the left side back out. Just used the dozer as something stationary to attach to, I wouldn't recommend using the hydraulics as just a wee bit too strong. Also placeing some wooden shims between the cable and the post to spread the force of the cable to avoid crimping is important. Pulling in on the right side was the same process.
The, don't know what to call it, lock that slides into the quarter panel near the tail gate locks on the side, had to be adjusted to allow proper alignment of the gate and the quarter panels. All good now. Off to continue work. More pics later. |
Good news!!
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Well here are we again. Floor is back in driver's side. Partial floor on passenger side with spare tire mount.
Got some rockers (inner and outer), floor pans, and patch panels and rear cab mounts today. Could make for a busy weekend. Got a little sloppy there towards the end. Oh well break out the grinder. Here's where I'm at so far. |
Looks good!
I hope to get some actual corrugated bed floor from my donor Suburban to fix up the bed floor in my K5. I want it to look like something GM did only a bit different. The previous owner had cut a square hole over the sending unit in the tank. I want to keep that hole so that if I ever have to drop the tank, I can support it from up top with straps from the roll bar. I will recess a cover using tapered head bolts to hold it down for a nice flush mount. |
Originally Posted by swartlkk
(Post 203405)
Looks good!
The previous owner had cut a square hole over the sending unit in the tank. I want to keep that hole so that if I ever have to drop the tank, I can support it from up top with straps from the roll bar. I will recess a cover using tapered head bolts to hold it down for a nice flush mount. I thought about the corrugated bed floor myself. I figured I'm just going to cover it with sound barrier and carpet anyway so flat's fine for me. |
It definitely works. I will be having my bed either Rhino lined or Line-X'd so it will need to look good. I will also do bed liner underneath too.
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Are you gonna have somebody do it or are you gonna do it yourself?
You HAVE seen what they do to the bed before they spray it on right? |
Yes, I have seen it happen.
I really was thinking of doing it myself using a roll on product, at least for on the underside of the bed. |
Well the bed and tail pan are solid again, just need to be primed and painted.
Today I cut out the passenger side floor pan, the rear cab mount as it is rusted throughand front part of the corner panel. I say panel it was really 1" thick Bondo, I measured it. Kind of slow going, broke some sawz-all blades, some skin....the usual. Hopefully tomorrow or Monday start putting stuff back together. When welding on the front floor panel, cab mount and rockers do I need to disconnect the ECM? If my ground lead is close it shouldn't fry anything should it? |
You should not have any problems, but it would not hurt anything to unplug it.
BTW, where are the pictures of the new holes...? |
Ha. After crawling around and "smoking" all that undercoating I had to go find a beer. Probably tomorrow. I want to get it cut to the point that I'm ready to replace. Cutting conservatively right now to make sure I wont have to make up stuff as I go along.
By the way, the advice on the solid core wire and gas....huge help. Now if I can just keep from getting to impatient it should go smoothly. For anybody who cares, even though Lincoln recommends between 35-45psi on the gas, about 31-32 works great. |
The dismantling continues! And of course the hole ended up being larger than the replacement part so STILL have to make some stuff up. With the wife out of town this weekend progress shall be made!
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Looks good! Keep up the good work!
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