01 Jimmy shutting down while driving "long"
#1
07-25-2016, 10:14 AM
01 Jimmy shutting down while driving "long"
Hi everyone,
First time posting on this forum. Have received alot of help just reading some of the threads. Thanks!
Have a heck of an issue I can't figure out.
2001 Jimmy V6.
Car starts fine and runs fine. BUTT after driving about 5-10 miles and the engine gets up to driving temps she shuts down. The tach drops at the same time. Give it some more gas and she settles for a few seconds then the same thing keeps happening. Have to ride brake and gas to keep running when coming to a stop. Doesn't sputter just shuts off.
This doesnt happen until the engine warms to driving temps.
Took it to a very good 40 year mechanic and he was stumped. After 2 days he recommended taking to the Dealer. He said he checked everyhing and it all pointed to a possible bad ECU. He didn't have a ECU to test is why he recommened the Dealer. HE checked the EGR valve, Crankshaft sensor and timing. Told me the engine is just shutting down (not sure what instrument he used) But said he could see the spark plugs shut down. NOL Light? Not sure...
Dealer was useless as usual when you have a problem that requires something like knowledge not parts changing. Dealer diginostics was to replace the EGR valve and fuel flush. Estimate $600.00 ummm no.
Needless to say I replaced the EGR valve myself for $100.00 and of course it didn't correct the issue.
There is an issue that started before that may be related. The 10amp fuse for ign "E" located under the hood fuse box blows when turning the key to the on position and when starting the car. We found this a few months ago because the AC went out. Took the Jimmy in to service the AC and they couldn't get the compressor to fire due to this fuse blowing. Took it to an auto electrical shop to find the "short" or what was blowing this fuse. They couldn't find the issue so bypassed the leg of the fuse to fire the AC compressor so the air would work.
So now I'm the designated repairman for ths issue as well. If the fuse blows after starting I can replace the fuse while the engine is running and it doesn't blow. I can turn the key in numerous positions and move the steering column up and down and sometimes the fuse blows and sometimes not. Could it be the iginition switch? and could it be related to the engine shutting down. I will have to post codes later I don;t have them with me but I remember a p0300 missfire code.
Here's the recent repairs performed on the car over the past 2 years
New Alternator, Fuel Pump, Spider, Fuel filter, Intake manifold gasket. aftermarket radio. These were done 2 years ago about to the date.
Replaced the Dist cap, button and EGR valve last week.
About the end of April is when I started noticing what felt like the tranny slipping but ended up being the engine shutting down once I started watching the tach while driving.
So if anyone has experienced this please share. Driving me bonkers. For some reason I can't help but think the IGN E fuse may be related to this issue. I'm leaning towards replacing the ign switch today so any suggestions would be greatly apperciated!
First time posting on this forum. Have received alot of help just reading some of the threads. Thanks!
Have a heck of an issue I can't figure out.
2001 Jimmy V6.
Car starts fine and runs fine. BUTT after driving about 5-10 miles and the engine gets up to driving temps she shuts down. The tach drops at the same time. Give it some more gas and she settles for a few seconds then the same thing keeps happening. Have to ride brake and gas to keep running when coming to a stop. Doesn't sputter just shuts off.
This doesnt happen until the engine warms to driving temps.
Took it to a very good 40 year mechanic and he was stumped. After 2 days he recommended taking to the Dealer. He said he checked everyhing and it all pointed to a possible bad ECU. He didn't have a ECU to test is why he recommened the Dealer. HE checked the EGR valve, Crankshaft sensor and timing. Told me the engine is just shutting down (not sure what instrument he used) But said he could see the spark plugs shut down. NOL Light? Not sure...
Dealer was useless as usual when you have a problem that requires something like knowledge not parts changing. Dealer diginostics was to replace the EGR valve and fuel flush. Estimate $600.00 ummm no.
Needless to say I replaced the EGR valve myself for $100.00 and of course it didn't correct the issue.
There is an issue that started before that may be related. The 10amp fuse for ign "E" located under the hood fuse box blows when turning the key to the on position and when starting the car. We found this a few months ago because the AC went out. Took the Jimmy in to service the AC and they couldn't get the compressor to fire due to this fuse blowing. Took it to an auto electrical shop to find the "short" or what was blowing this fuse. They couldn't find the issue so bypassed the leg of the fuse to fire the AC compressor so the air would work.
So now I'm the designated repairman for ths issue as well. If the fuse blows after starting I can replace the fuse while the engine is running and it doesn't blow. I can turn the key in numerous positions and move the steering column up and down and sometimes the fuse blows and sometimes not. Could it be the iginition switch? and could it be related to the engine shutting down. I will have to post codes later I don;t have them with me but I remember a p0300 missfire code.
Here's the recent repairs performed on the car over the past 2 years
New Alternator, Fuel Pump, Spider, Fuel filter, Intake manifold gasket. aftermarket radio. These were done 2 years ago about to the date.
Replaced the Dist cap, button and EGR valve last week.
About the end of April is when I started noticing what felt like the tranny slipping but ended up being the engine shutting down once I started watching the tach while driving.
So if anyone has experienced this please share. Driving me bonkers. For some reason I can't help but think the IGN E fuse may be related to this issue. I'm leaning towards replacing the ign switch today so any suggestions would be greatly apperciated!
#3
07-25-2016, 11:53 AM
Sounds like a bad coil or bad ignition module (the little heatsinked circuit on the coil bracket).
If you have a multimeter, check the coil resistance and check for ground paths from the low voltage connection on the coil. If you can carry the meter with you, and check it at the time of failure, that's even better.
If you can, get a can or three of "Keyboard/electronics duster" or "canned air" and when it dies, open the hood, turn the canned "duster" upside down and hose down the module with the liquid from the duster can to get it cold. Be careful, that stuff is cold enough to cause frostbite if you get it on your skin. Try starting it after quickly cooling off the module. If that doesn't work, hose the coil down with a lot of the liquid, to get it cool.
If cooling the module resolves the issue, replace the module. If cooling the coil fixes it, the next time it fails, cool the coil first. It's possible for both parts to be bad.
Also, check for codes. If you're in the states, you can take it to O'Reilly Auto Parts or Autozone and get the codes read for free. Write down all the codes and post that information back here.
If you have a multimeter, check the coil resistance and check for ground paths from the low voltage connection on the coil. If you can carry the meter with you, and check it at the time of failure, that's even better.
If you can, get a can or three of "Keyboard/electronics duster" or "canned air" and when it dies, open the hood, turn the canned "duster" upside down and hose down the module with the liquid from the duster can to get it cold. Be careful, that stuff is cold enough to cause frostbite if you get it on your skin. Try starting it after quickly cooling off the module. If that doesn't work, hose the coil down with a lot of the liquid, to get it cool.
If cooling the module resolves the issue, replace the module. If cooling the coil fixes it, the next time it fails, cool the coil first. It's possible for both parts to be bad.
Also, check for codes. If you're in the states, you can take it to O'Reilly Auto Parts or Autozone and get the codes read for free. Write down all the codes and post that information back here.
Last edited by Racer_X; 07-25-2016 at 11:58 AM.
#5
07-25-2016, 12:31 PM
If the fuse is causing a shutdown, then it wouldn't restart until you replace the blown fuse. I'm somewhat concerned with how the fuse was "fixed." But that sounds like a secondary, unrelated issue.
If you're driving along, and the engine loses ignition like the switch was turned off, but it's still turning and it feels like you're coasting dragging the engine at speed, and the tach shows zero RPMs, then the issue is in the components that feed pulses to the tachometer. A shorted coil will do that, showing zero RPM's because there's always battery power on the tach wire. A coil that's shorted to ground will do that, again, because there's always ground on the tach wire. That kind of short can be within the coil (coil shorting to the case), or in the ground wire circuitry in the ignition module.
If the coil shorts, and the pulsed ground side of the coil never goes to ground, that should set a DTC related to ignition coil/ignition module.
If the short is on the ground side, I don't think that sets a code.
It's also possible for the crank sensor to "fail when hot," but that's less likely. That will also set a code. If you have a scan tool (or a bluetooth OBD-II adapter and an OBD-II "app" like Torque Pro or even Torque Lite), you can check for codes immediately when it stops. You might get more information at that time.
If you're driving along, and the engine loses ignition like the switch was turned off, but it's still turning and it feels like you're coasting dragging the engine at speed, and the tach shows zero RPMs, then the issue is in the components that feed pulses to the tachometer. A shorted coil will do that, showing zero RPM's because there's always battery power on the tach wire. A coil that's shorted to ground will do that, again, because there's always ground on the tach wire. That kind of short can be within the coil (coil shorting to the case), or in the ground wire circuitry in the ignition module.
If the coil shorts, and the pulsed ground side of the coil never goes to ground, that should set a DTC related to ignition coil/ignition module.
If the short is on the ground side, I don't think that sets a code.
It's also possible for the crank sensor to "fail when hot," but that's less likely. That will also set a code. If you have a scan tool (or a bluetooth OBD-II adapter and an OBD-II "app" like Torque Pro or even Torque Lite), you can check for codes immediately when it stops. You might get more information at that time.
#8
07-27-2016, 06:17 AM
Haven't had a chance to work on Jimmy the past few days. Codes that the first shop gave me. P0133, P0135, P0300, P0410 and P0418
Ordered an OBDII MX to use with Torque. Should be here by tomorrow
Gonna drop in an ignition switch Friday. Will post back.
Ordered an OBDII MX to use with Torque. Should be here by tomorrow
Gonna drop in an ignition switch Friday. Will post back.
#10
07-27-2016, 10:11 AM
I'm literally packing for a 2 day trip here. I won't be back until Friday.
Your DTC's aren't the kind that usually "kill" a running engine. O2 sensor is bad, Secondary air problems, but nothing that will turn it off like a switch.
I've seen coils, and ignition modules fail in a "stops when hot, works again when cooled off" mode. The switch usually works until it breaks, then it stays broken until it's repaired. I've never seen one fail like you are describing. It could be the switch, but that's less likely IMO.
Crank position sensors can also fail like what you're experiencing. I'm not saying the switch is impossible as a source of the problem I am saying, if I were to start testing, I'd start with checking the ignition coil for proper resistance, and to make sure there are no shorts to ground, even when hot. I'd also check the ground at the ignition module for high resistance.
The "quick cool" method of "work around" diagnosis was taught to me many years ago on a race car. I had a car that I was working on that would die after 5 or 6 laps. I was convinced the coil was good because, even when it wouldn't run, it would fire for a few seconds with starter fluid sprayed down the carb.
Eventually, someone else at the track, a competitor, came over, blasted the coil with a CO2 fire extinguisher. It started right up after that.
Your DTC's aren't the kind that usually "kill" a running engine. O2 sensor is bad, Secondary air problems, but nothing that will turn it off like a switch.
I've seen coils, and ignition modules fail in a "stops when hot, works again when cooled off" mode. The switch usually works until it breaks, then it stays broken until it's repaired. I've never seen one fail like you are describing. It could be the switch, but that's less likely IMO.
Crank position sensors can also fail like what you're experiencing. I'm not saying the switch is impossible as a source of the problem I am saying, if I were to start testing, I'd start with checking the ignition coil for proper resistance, and to make sure there are no shorts to ground, even when hot. I'd also check the ground at the ignition module for high resistance.
The "quick cool" method of "work around" diagnosis was taught to me many years ago on a race car. I had a car that I was working on that would die after 5 or 6 laps. I was convinced the coil was good because, even when it wouldn't run, it would fire for a few seconds with starter fluid sprayed down the carb.
Eventually, someone else at the track, a competitor, came over, blasted the coil with a CO2 fire extinguisher. It started right up after that.