Added the weight of ONE person, jerking is back!
#52
11-11-2010, 01:23 PM
It was one of those things that seemed to help in a few areas, but didn't totally fix the problem. Try rockauto.com; I got a Cardone ECU for less than $80 after core. Of course the PROM is still the same, but I've not heard of issues directly relatedto those.
#53
11-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Hi All,
I am new here. I had this problem with my 98 Bravada around 160K ~4 years ago. I replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ignitor, FP, FPR, Fuel Filter, O2 sensors, timing sensors and started looking at the transmission when it got REALLY bad. At my wits end I took it to the dealership and paid the $75 diag fee. They told me I had a plugged cat. When I pulled the cat, I found lots of little pieces of something plugging all the holes. I stuck a endoscope in the downpipe to check out the pre-cat (you car probably doesnt have a pre-cat). The pre-cat was about the size of a baseball just floating in the can. It was DESTROYED. When the thing turned sideways it would plug up the output hole like a check valve. What destroys a CAT this badly? Overheating in a big way would do it. I pulled my plugs again and found #6 was broken off inside the cup of the plug and the ground electrode was broken off also. I stuck the endoscope in the cylinder and there was some scoring, but no pieces. Compression was still good. The plug smelled like gas. This DID NOT throw a misfire code, because there was still an arc going in the base of the plug. After replacing the plugs again, wires, cap and rotor, I figured I would try to start it without the cats. I got a couple loud BANGs out of the pipe but the damn thing still wouldnt start. I did the oil and it smelled like gas also. Finally, I pulled the manifold off and there was a puddle of gas in one of the low spots in the back of the lower manifold. That wasnt there when I did the FPR a few months prior. I replaced the CPI from this website and the thing has been solid as a rock for another 80K (bottom of page).
http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm
I just did the plugs again and went with ACF-12 plugs. I am very happy with them. Routinely revs to 5K 1st+2nd merging onto the highway every morning with 240K on the clock. No more high speed misfires
For all the work and money spent on little parts, I wish I just put this injector assembly in there in the first place. This replacement assembly moves the injector solenoids down to the valve location, instead of using the poppet valves with the solenoid in the CPI body. It is supposed to be much more reliable and better for fuel economy. I wouldnt know about that because of how I drive, but all my starting troubles went away and have not been back for 4 years.
Good luck getting the manifold off. GM put the fuel lines in a pretty awkward place on my motor. Hopefully yours is easier to get off.
-William
I am new here. I had this problem with my 98 Bravada around 160K ~4 years ago. I replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ignitor, FP, FPR, Fuel Filter, O2 sensors, timing sensors and started looking at the transmission when it got REALLY bad. At my wits end I took it to the dealership and paid the $75 diag fee. They told me I had a plugged cat. When I pulled the cat, I found lots of little pieces of something plugging all the holes. I stuck a endoscope in the downpipe to check out the pre-cat (you car probably doesnt have a pre-cat). The pre-cat was about the size of a baseball just floating in the can. It was DESTROYED. When the thing turned sideways it would plug up the output hole like a check valve. What destroys a CAT this badly? Overheating in a big way would do it. I pulled my plugs again and found #6 was broken off inside the cup of the plug and the ground electrode was broken off also. I stuck the endoscope in the cylinder and there was some scoring, but no pieces. Compression was still good. The plug smelled like gas. This DID NOT throw a misfire code, because there was still an arc going in the base of the plug. After replacing the plugs again, wires, cap and rotor, I figured I would try to start it without the cats. I got a couple loud BANGs out of the pipe but the damn thing still wouldnt start. I did the oil and it smelled like gas also. Finally, I pulled the manifold off and there was a puddle of gas in one of the low spots in the back of the lower manifold. That wasnt there when I did the FPR a few months prior. I replaced the CPI from this website and the thing has been solid as a rock for another 80K (bottom of page).
http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm
I just did the plugs again and went with ACF-12 plugs. I am very happy with them. Routinely revs to 5K 1st+2nd merging onto the highway every morning with 240K on the clock. No more high speed misfires
For all the work and money spent on little parts, I wish I just put this injector assembly in there in the first place. This replacement assembly moves the injector solenoids down to the valve location, instead of using the poppet valves with the solenoid in the CPI body. It is supposed to be much more reliable and better for fuel economy. I wouldnt know about that because of how I drive, but all my starting troubles went away and have not been back for 4 years.
Good luck getting the manifold off. GM put the fuel lines in a pretty awkward place on my motor. Hopefully yours is easier to get off.
-William
#54
02-21-2012, 12:19 AM
Hi Everyone
As was mentioned by another, I do not mean to hijack this thread but we have had the same issues with our 1998 Blazer. I have also changed the plugs, plug wires, cleaned the throttle body (which seemed to help the most), and now have changed the fuel filter. Seems to be working better but I took it in for a diagnostic test and the dealership suggested that the transmission was overheating, burning the transmission fluid, and the TCC was not working correctly.
I would probably call it a day with this vehicle but my wife loves it to death. I am currently looking at some of the old threads about the transmission but was wondering if there were any updates on the surging issue. Some of you have gone way beyond what I have done to fix this and have not seemed to have any luck either.
Thanks
As was mentioned by another, I do not mean to hijack this thread but we have had the same issues with our 1998 Blazer. I have also changed the plugs, plug wires, cleaned the throttle body (which seemed to help the most), and now have changed the fuel filter. Seems to be working better but I took it in for a diagnostic test and the dealership suggested that the transmission was overheating, burning the transmission fluid, and the TCC was not working correctly.
I would probably call it a day with this vehicle but my wife loves it to death. I am currently looking at some of the old threads about the transmission but was wondering if there were any updates on the surging issue. Some of you have gone way beyond what I have done to fix this and have not seemed to have any luck either.
Thanks
#55
02-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Hey.
These transmissions had an issue with the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) apply valve. There was a recall, but we are far out of that coverage time. If the GM TCC valve was installed in the warranty time of the car, then the valve body can not be machined for the better Sonnex repair valve. The GM replacement valve machined the TCC valve bore to a larger diameter than the Sonnex repair kit. The reamer for the Sonnex valve is like $100, but the valve is pretty cheap.
I recently swapped a 97 transmission into my 98 Bravada because a huge leak developed after 260K miles. The 98 had the GM fix applied to it and was still going strong at 260K. My Dad bought the car new and he has the paperwork showing when the repair was done. The 97 is having the same problem and I was hoping to refresh the valve body from the 98 and swap it in, but my local trans shop made me aware of the valve diameter issue. They did say that they have the reamer for the Sonnex replacement valve and they would ream the valve body and install the valve for $40.
Taking the valve body apart with the trans in the car is tough. I wont lie to you about that. There are 7 (I think) check ***** sandwiched between the valve body and the transmission. DONT loose them if you take it apart. They will stay in the valve body if you lower it down perfectly level from the bottom of the transmission. The website below shows a bench teardown of the trans.
4L60E Disassembly
If the GM valve was not installed in your vehicle, then you can install the new Sonnex valve. Do a google search for "4l60e TCC repair valve". I got mine from transmission part USA. They have a website.
You will need a torque wrench. And not a cheapy that is at Autozone. A digital Snap On wrench that is properly calibrated would be best. In order for the transmission to function properly it is imperative that all 20 or so little bolts are torqued properly.
It is also important to note that the TCC may be fried at this point, which means you will have to replace the Torque Converter. It can be done, but it is an enormous job without a lift. I swapped the transmission in my car and it took a whole weekend with the help of a friend just to swap it. Then putting everything else back together that goes around it (exhaust, frame pieces, PS wheel well, axles, etc) took several days. Theoretically the Torque Converter would be easier to replace since the trans does not have to come out from under the car, but you do have to lower it down and move it back to gain access to the Torque Converter. Also, the transfer case is a bit of a beast to remove by hand, but do-able. I think it would be wise to have the dealership or a transmission shop assess the condition of the torque converter. If the TCC is fried (or likely fried), fixing the valve body will not work.
If the car is not driven on the highway you could defeat the TCC entirely by removing or clipping wire 7 (brown wire) in the C2 ECM connector (driver-side, lower connector on the ECM). This will turn the MIL on if it isnt already on, but it defeats the PWM solenoid for the TCC apply circuit. So the TCC will not burn the fluid and you can drive around town just fine. If it still slips or bucks, then the problem is somewhere else.
Good Luck!
-William
These transmissions had an issue with the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) apply valve. There was a recall, but we are far out of that coverage time. If the GM TCC valve was installed in the warranty time of the car, then the valve body can not be machined for the better Sonnex repair valve. The GM replacement valve machined the TCC valve bore to a larger diameter than the Sonnex repair kit. The reamer for the Sonnex valve is like $100, but the valve is pretty cheap.
I recently swapped a 97 transmission into my 98 Bravada because a huge leak developed after 260K miles. The 98 had the GM fix applied to it and was still going strong at 260K. My Dad bought the car new and he has the paperwork showing when the repair was done. The 97 is having the same problem and I was hoping to refresh the valve body from the 98 and swap it in, but my local trans shop made me aware of the valve diameter issue. They did say that they have the reamer for the Sonnex replacement valve and they would ream the valve body and install the valve for $40.
Taking the valve body apart with the trans in the car is tough. I wont lie to you about that. There are 7 (I think) check ***** sandwiched between the valve body and the transmission. DONT loose them if you take it apart. They will stay in the valve body if you lower it down perfectly level from the bottom of the transmission. The website below shows a bench teardown of the trans.
4L60E Disassembly
If the GM valve was not installed in your vehicle, then you can install the new Sonnex valve. Do a google search for "4l60e TCC repair valve". I got mine from transmission part USA. They have a website.
You will need a torque wrench. And not a cheapy that is at Autozone. A digital Snap On wrench that is properly calibrated would be best. In order for the transmission to function properly it is imperative that all 20 or so little bolts are torqued properly.
It is also important to note that the TCC may be fried at this point, which means you will have to replace the Torque Converter. It can be done, but it is an enormous job without a lift. I swapped the transmission in my car and it took a whole weekend with the help of a friend just to swap it. Then putting everything else back together that goes around it (exhaust, frame pieces, PS wheel well, axles, etc) took several days. Theoretically the Torque Converter would be easier to replace since the trans does not have to come out from under the car, but you do have to lower it down and move it back to gain access to the Torque Converter. Also, the transfer case is a bit of a beast to remove by hand, but do-able. I think it would be wise to have the dealership or a transmission shop assess the condition of the torque converter. If the TCC is fried (or likely fried), fixing the valve body will not work.
If the car is not driven on the highway you could defeat the TCC entirely by removing or clipping wire 7 (brown wire) in the C2 ECM connector (driver-side, lower connector on the ECM). This will turn the MIL on if it isnt already on, but it defeats the PWM solenoid for the TCC apply circuit. So the TCC will not burn the fluid and you can drive around town just fine. If it still slips or bucks, then the problem is somewhere else.
Good Luck!
-William
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