My Blazer thread. Caught fire last night, "pop" noises when trying to start. Begin.
#31
07-15-2015, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by swartlkk
So I have taken your three threads that were all about your current situation and combined them. I will now attempt to answer the questions I have seen so far.
As far as the fire in the engine compartment is concerned, the following parts are what I would recommend changing out:
You will also want to inspect all of the wiring outside of the lower intake for heat damage. Wires, whether in a harness or not, should be fairly easy to bend. If they feel hard, they are heat damaged and may break down the road. It would be a good idea to splice in good wire; soldering the connection & heat shrinking them or using some good quality (3M) heat shrink butt connectors if soldering is not something you have experience with.
As far as making sure you do not get spark or fuel, I think you already have that covered, but I'll reiterate. Disconnecting the multi-pin connector from the ignition coil will disable spark as Captain has stated. The fuel pump relay will be located on the firewall, but I do not recall off the top of my head which one is the fuel pump. Suffice to say that if you remove all of them, you'll be covered. As you have also found, the ECM-B fuse is what powers the fuel pump relay so that is also another means of disabling the pump.
As far as the water is concerned, it can take a while to clear all of the water from a cylinder especially if it is still in the long intake runners in the lower manifold. If you suspect a lower intake manifold gasket failure, you should check to see if the radiator level is dropping before jumping to that conclusion. You could also do a cooling system leak down test to confirm the system integrity. That typically consists of installing a special cap that has a gauge port on it as well as a port to either allow for manual application of pressure (hand pump) or regulated shop air, bringing the system up to 16psi which it should hold. I would hold off on the cooling system issues (if there are any) until you get the motor running again. This is especially true if you are not getting any water in the oil. You'll know its in the oil as it will turn the oil into a chocolate milkshake.
A lot to take in, so here's a brief synopsis of my recommendations and the direction I would go from here. Install the new fuel system parts and test the fuel system for leaks. Then get the upper intake plenum back on. Install new plugs (cap, rotor, wires if you think they need to be replaced) and check the engine timing (timing light with the timing wire disconnected inside the truck - spec is 0 degrees). Let'er rip. See how it runs at that point. If it is loosing coolant, tackle that job next.
If it runs, then put some miles on it and then look at the condition of the plugs. That will tell you a lot more about what is going on with the engine without influence from past vices.
As far as the fire in the engine compartment is concerned, the following parts are what I would recommend changing out:
- Internal fuel lines (aka 'nut kit') - yes, the picture you provided is the 'nut kit'
- Entire injection spider - The individual poppet nozzles & lines are not separately available and attempting to install ones from a used donor spider will likely result in leaks which would be detrimental to performance.
- New internal wiring to the injector - this part is fairly cheap and good insurance against a failed connector due potential heat damage from the fire.
You will also want to inspect all of the wiring outside of the lower intake for heat damage. Wires, whether in a harness or not, should be fairly easy to bend. If they feel hard, they are heat damaged and may break down the road. It would be a good idea to splice in good wire; soldering the connection & heat shrinking them or using some good quality (3M) heat shrink butt connectors if soldering is not something you have experience with.
As far as making sure you do not get spark or fuel, I think you already have that covered, but I'll reiterate. Disconnecting the multi-pin connector from the ignition coil will disable spark as Captain has stated. The fuel pump relay will be located on the firewall, but I do not recall off the top of my head which one is the fuel pump. Suffice to say that if you remove all of them, you'll be covered. As you have also found, the ECM-B fuse is what powers the fuel pump relay so that is also another means of disabling the pump.
As far as the water is concerned, it can take a while to clear all of the water from a cylinder especially if it is still in the long intake runners in the lower manifold. If you suspect a lower intake manifold gasket failure, you should check to see if the radiator level is dropping before jumping to that conclusion. You could also do a cooling system leak down test to confirm the system integrity. That typically consists of installing a special cap that has a gauge port on it as well as a port to either allow for manual application of pressure (hand pump) or regulated shop air, bringing the system up to 16psi which it should hold. I would hold off on the cooling system issues (if there are any) until you get the motor running again. This is especially true if you are not getting any water in the oil. You'll know its in the oil as it will turn the oil into a chocolate milkshake.
A lot to take in, so here's a brief synopsis of my recommendations and the direction I would go from here. Install the new fuel system parts and test the fuel system for leaks. Then get the upper intake plenum back on. Install new plugs (cap, rotor, wires if you think they need to be replaced) and check the engine timing (timing light with the timing wire disconnected inside the truck - spec is 0 degrees). Let'er rip. See how it runs at that point. If it is loosing coolant, tackle that job next.
If it runs, then put some miles on it and then look at the condition of the plugs. That will tell you a lot more about what is going on with the engine without influence from past vices.
Just a quick recap of how my truck looks, was thinking of the claybar and a wax, before I check out grinding wheel (*one side had Bondo applied, I think the good side is pictured and the other looks more "cut out" or "rusted out" at rocker panel) on the cosmetic side. I cannot deny that, though my truck is kinda tore up in spots (engine and dash) and has sat, that it is still.. very nice for the age. Not perfect, hell no. But nice.
As to the mechanicals, and all posted.. I am just about ready to go. I have all this ready:
A part of me still wants to take it down to the heads and THEN rebuild, however it sure would be easier to get it back running as you said and then go. I am just about certain I have a coolant leak, though, as yes the radiator is now dry without being opened up. For reference, this is when it still started and ran, and starting got progressively weaker until we got to our present point:
In any case, whichever option chosen.. I wanted to display that I have the parts, and that I am ready to tackle that THIS WEEK, maybe even tomorrow. All is well there. Checking in.
Sincerely, - Joseph
**If I DO want to take it down to the heads, as I have other Blazer enthusiasts that "know" I have a Head Gasket problem.. Is there any list of socket sizes I will need, to make the work of disassembly easier? I would more or less "follow what bolts on to what," etc..
#32
07-16-2015, 12:26 PM
^^ eep.. Kinda forgot about the exhaust manifold difficulties.
Ok. Let me go put the parts pictured back on.. and I will have the video rolling when it starts up.
Even if it DOES have a blown HG, (and it does.) All I am doing is driving around block, so...
Ok. Let me go put the parts pictured back on.. and I will have the video rolling when it starts up.
Even if it DOES have a blown HG, (and it does.) All I am doing is driving around block, so...
#33
07-16-2015, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by 93S10TahoeLT
^^ eep.. Kinda forgot about the exhaust manifold difficulties.
Ok. Let me go put the parts pictured back on.. and I will have the video rolling when it starts up.
Even if it DOES have a blown HG, (and it does.) All I am doing is driving around block, so...
Ok. Let me go put the parts pictured back on.. and I will have the video rolling when it starts up.
Even if it DOES have a blown HG, (and it does.) All I am doing is driving around block, so...
#34
07-16-2015, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by richphotos
I am sorry, but you should have listened to us when you first joined the forum when we told you that it was the head gasket, Same with over at s10 forums.
I even went to put it back together for the purpose of having it MOVE UNDER ITS OWN POWER but, alas.. I can't get the nylon lines off the "nut kit" to slip on what is in there.
As a result, I had the weather and the energy to do it (put back intake, spider, lines) .. and it will wait for another day. Did I mention that I purchased both HGs and the LIMG(s?) So.. when i get it somewhere, I'm all over it.
It may have been a long time coming but the time is close at hand.
#35
07-16-2015, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by 93S10TahoeLT
I can't get the nylon lines off the "nut kit" to slip on what is in there.
#36
07-17-2015, 05:32 AM
Originally Posted by swartlkk
So let me get this straight, you were trying to remove the nylon lines from the new 'nut kit' to put them onto the fittings in the back of your lower intake manifold?
I have a feeling this is not how it goes or is done, though. So, I suppose I should ask.. How do I remove the "whole thing" ? (I still need to get the lines off the old one, too. Literally pulling them off, I think. They came with the old lines attached and cut off, which makes them useless.)
**For the old, cut lines: I tried a long-nose plier. They seem like they do not want to come off, but they need to come off, somehow.
**For the NEW lines: I stopped after one mild tug, as they are still brand new and I did not want to damage them.
Because I am now *THIS CLOSE* to at least getting it to start and run, I know I have more work ahead of me in any case...
#37
07-17-2015, 06:55 AM
By attempting to remove the nylon lines you have now ruined the new 'nut kit'. The lines are clipped to the spider, clipped to the outside of the intake manifold, & threaded into the hard feed/return lines to/from the fuel tank.
This image shows the clip at the back of the intake manifold that is held in place by a socket head cap screw:
The 'nut kit' should NEVER be tampered with where the nylon lines are shrink fit onto the ends. This is the primary leak path when they are manipulated after being in service for any appreciable length of time.
Now, I asked that question pretty much already knowing the answer. I have been holding back a certain amount because your approach is naively recklessness and you do not seem to possess common sense when it comes to component part replacement. I say this because you would attempt to dismantle a brand new part (well known for its propensity for leaking) rather than install it as a whole. You obviously do not know what it took to assemble them in the first place so why would you think it was a good idea to try to disassemble them? I can't help but feel like this is a lost cause.
If you really want to fix your truck and stop wasting money, I would suggest a quality repair manual. CLICK HERE for an active eBay auction for all three of the factory service manuals for your vehicle. Another option would be to get an AllDataDIY.com subscription. Where people with more mechanical aptitude and/or experience can simply disassemble, replace, and reassemble, you need to research, research, research, and research some more before attempting things such as you have done to date in this and other threads. We can help, but it is impractical to list every single DO NOT DO THIS item such as seems necessary with how this thread has played out.
I do not mean this to discourage or berate you, but to caution you that to keep blindly moving along is dangerous for you and others around you. I have attempted to say this as encouragingly as possible.
This image shows the clip at the back of the intake manifold that is held in place by a socket head cap screw:
The 'nut kit' should NEVER be tampered with where the nylon lines are shrink fit onto the ends. This is the primary leak path when they are manipulated after being in service for any appreciable length of time.
Now, I asked that question pretty much already knowing the answer. I have been holding back a certain amount because your approach is naively recklessness and you do not seem to possess common sense when it comes to component part replacement. I say this because you would attempt to dismantle a brand new part (well known for its propensity for leaking) rather than install it as a whole. You obviously do not know what it took to assemble them in the first place so why would you think it was a good idea to try to disassemble them? I can't help but feel like this is a lost cause.
If you really want to fix your truck and stop wasting money, I would suggest a quality repair manual. CLICK HERE for an active eBay auction for all three of the factory service manuals for your vehicle. Another option would be to get an AllDataDIY.com subscription. Where people with more mechanical aptitude and/or experience can simply disassemble, replace, and reassemble, you need to research, research, research, and research some more before attempting things such as you have done to date in this and other threads. We can help, but it is impractical to list every single DO NOT DO THIS item such as seems necessary with how this thread has played out.
I do not mean this to discourage or berate you, but to caution you that to keep blindly moving along is dangerous for you and others around you. I have attempted to say this as encouragingly as possible.
#38
07-17-2015, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by swartlkk
By attempting to remove the nylon lines you have now ruined the new 'nut kit'. The lines are clipped to the spider, clipped to the outside of the intake manifold, & threaded into the hard feed/return lines to/from the fuel tank.
This image shows the clip at the back of the intake manifold that is held in place by a socket head cap screw:
The 'nut kit' should NEVER be tampered with where the nylon lines are shrink fit onto the ends. This is the primary leak path when they are manipulated after being in service for any appreciable length of time.
Now, I asked that question pretty much already knowing the answer. I have been holding back a certain amount because your approach is naively recklessness and you do not seem to possess common sense when it comes to component part replacement. I say this because you would attempt to dismantle a brand new part (well known for its propensity for leaking) rather than install it as a whole. You obviously do not know what it took to assemble them in the first place so why would you think it was a good idea to try to disassemble them? I can't help but feel like this is a lost cause.
If you really want to fix your truck and stop wasting money, I would suggest a quality repair manual. CLICK HERE for an active eBay auction for all three of the factory service manuals for your vehicle. Another option would be to get an AllDataDIY.com subscription. Where people with more mechanical aptitude and/or experience can simply disassemble, replace, and reassemble, you need to research, research, research, and research some more before attempting things such as you have done to date in this and other threads. We can help, but it is impractical to list every single DO NOT DO THIS item such as seems necessary with how this thread has played out.
I do not mean this to discourage or berate you, but to caution you that to keep blindly moving along is dangerous for you and others around you. I have attempted to say this as encouragingly as possible.
This image shows the clip at the back of the intake manifold that is held in place by a socket head cap screw:
The 'nut kit' should NEVER be tampered with where the nylon lines are shrink fit onto the ends. This is the primary leak path when they are manipulated after being in service for any appreciable length of time.
Now, I asked that question pretty much already knowing the answer. I have been holding back a certain amount because your approach is naively recklessness and you do not seem to possess common sense when it comes to component part replacement. I say this because you would attempt to dismantle a brand new part (well known for its propensity for leaking) rather than install it as a whole. You obviously do not know what it took to assemble them in the first place so why would you think it was a good idea to try to disassemble them? I can't help but feel like this is a lost cause.
If you really want to fix your truck and stop wasting money, I would suggest a quality repair manual. CLICK HERE for an active eBay auction for all three of the factory service manuals for your vehicle. Another option would be to get an AllDataDIY.com subscription. Where people with more mechanical aptitude and/or experience can simply disassemble, replace, and reassemble, you need to research, research, research, and research some more before attempting things such as you have done to date in this and other threads. We can help, but it is impractical to list every single DO NOT DO THIS item such as seems necessary with how this thread has played out.
I do not mean this to discourage or berate you, but to caution you that to keep blindly moving along is dangerous for you and others around you. I have attempted to say this as encouragingly as possible.
I considered this while I was at work today, and it occured to me, that.. to do the Nut Kit properly, the manifold must be removed (I think..) which would lend more creedence to doing the whole of both Head Gaskets at once. Given this information, I feel I will seek out a mechanic for the Head Gasket job, since it encompasses what I tried to do yesterday.
Everyone is telling me:
"This truck is a lost cause"
"Why have two cars"
"That truck is apiece of ****"
... but it's MY piece of ****, and I am NOT ready to let it go. I am BEYOND married to it.. It has even gotten out of a Police Impound before.. and a properly working drivetrain (next up: trans lines, do I need to post that video? Maybe later in this process) is the LEAST it can be to run.. It's fun to drive, and a beast in the snow. The Honda just slides when pushed.. though that doesn't really have anything to do with anything.
I also have my doubts that the individual that caused the fire is the right person.
So. How much do HG jobs on this usually run. I know there is a lot jammed under the hood, and though I have it partially disassembled, I still have much more to go...
#39
07-17-2015, 11:17 AM
Whether it is a lost cause or not is only a decision you can make.
The 'nut kit' can be replaced without pulling the lower intake manifold. Locate and remove the two fuel lines. Remove the bolt that holds the retaining plate in place. It will be between the two fuel line connections on the exterior of the intake manifold near the firewall. Remove the retaining plate. Slide the fittings into the inside of the lower intake manifold. Clean the bores with some scotchbrite pads. Lubricate the bores and the fittings/o-rings on the new 'nut kit' with some motor oil and slide them in. Install the new retaining plate and the bolt to hold it in place. Done. This can be done either before or after installing the new spider. I would likely do it after I had already installed the new spider.
Once the new 'nut kit' and spider are in and everything is tightened down properly, it will be time to pressurize the fuel system and check for leaks before putting the upper intake plenum back in place. The engine does NOT need to be turned over to pressurize the system. This can be accomplished by cycling the key from off to run (not start) several times.
The reason I state the danger is because you were very likely to repeat your troubles again by attempting to disassemble the new 'nut kit'.
If you haven't done a compression & leakdown test, that would be my suggestion before jumping into a full blown top end tear down. Since you already have the plugs out, a compression test will tell you how healthy the motor is. A leakdown test will give you an indication of where the problem may be if the compression test indicates that there is one. Both of these tests are fairly well documented on Youtube and the test equipment can often be rented from your local autoparts store.
While you are part way there already, it is my opinion that you do not have the necessary experience to successfully perform such a job. With the likelihood of broken exhaust manifold bolts, etc., this really is a job that should be left to someone that has more experience. I am often hesitant to say how much a certain job should cost due to the variability of working on aging vehicles. At this point, you could go around asking for estimates at various shops and get an idea, but I wouldn't send it off before really knowing what the problem(s) are with the cylinder pressures. Just saying, "I think it needs head gaskets" can result in getting new head gaskets which may not have been the problem if say a valve were bent, head cracked, or the rings were bad. If a valve were bad, then you will need to get that head (or both) reconditioned. A cracked head will need to be replaced. If the rings are bad, then you are looking at pulling the motor and either rebuilding it or putting in a donor from another vehicle.
Food for thought. At the end of the day you have to make the call and we can only give you the information to do so. Hopefully along the way you do not get separated with too much of your money.
The 'nut kit' can be replaced without pulling the lower intake manifold. Locate and remove the two fuel lines. Remove the bolt that holds the retaining plate in place. It will be between the two fuel line connections on the exterior of the intake manifold near the firewall. Remove the retaining plate. Slide the fittings into the inside of the lower intake manifold. Clean the bores with some scotchbrite pads. Lubricate the bores and the fittings/o-rings on the new 'nut kit' with some motor oil and slide them in. Install the new retaining plate and the bolt to hold it in place. Done. This can be done either before or after installing the new spider. I would likely do it after I had already installed the new spider.
Once the new 'nut kit' and spider are in and everything is tightened down properly, it will be time to pressurize the fuel system and check for leaks before putting the upper intake plenum back in place. The engine does NOT need to be turned over to pressurize the system. This can be accomplished by cycling the key from off to run (not start) several times.
The reason I state the danger is because you were very likely to repeat your troubles again by attempting to disassemble the new 'nut kit'.
If you haven't done a compression & leakdown test, that would be my suggestion before jumping into a full blown top end tear down. Since you already have the plugs out, a compression test will tell you how healthy the motor is. A leakdown test will give you an indication of where the problem may be if the compression test indicates that there is one. Both of these tests are fairly well documented on Youtube and the test equipment can often be rented from your local autoparts store.
While you are part way there already, it is my opinion that you do not have the necessary experience to successfully perform such a job. With the likelihood of broken exhaust manifold bolts, etc., this really is a job that should be left to someone that has more experience. I am often hesitant to say how much a certain job should cost due to the variability of working on aging vehicles. At this point, you could go around asking for estimates at various shops and get an idea, but I wouldn't send it off before really knowing what the problem(s) are with the cylinder pressures. Just saying, "I think it needs head gaskets" can result in getting new head gaskets which may not have been the problem if say a valve were bent, head cracked, or the rings were bad. If a valve were bad, then you will need to get that head (or both) reconditioned. A cracked head will need to be replaced. If the rings are bad, then you are looking at pulling the motor and either rebuilding it or putting in a donor from another vehicle.
Food for thought. At the end of the day you have to make the call and we can only give you the information to do so. Hopefully along the way you do not get separated with too much of your money.
#40
07-17-2015, 12:24 PM
swartlkk.. I would like to continue the repair. I have too much invested in this, and I really feel that once I get to fiting on all cylinders that this can be beautiful again - and a prime candidate for a "WHOA!" project, if the motor is trash/toast.. For some reason, "I don't think it is yet." Beat up? You betcha (probbaly had a blown HG when owner took his donor 94 truck to the yard.) So, let me ask a few questions, call it "fact-finding:"
1. I have a 1993 VIN W truck. I DO know for a fact that this is a 1994 VIN W engine. Question: IS THAT SIGNIFICANT AT ALL, or does that mean NOTHING?
2. Question #2, related to Question #1: ARE all VIN Ws the same, 1992 through 1995? ( I had two 1991 trucks.. Though they have slightly lower HP, I think I liked them better.)
3. CAN I USE THIS AT ALL Edelbrock Part No. 2114 - Intake Manifolds (Edelbrock 2114) or can it be made to work, ON MY ENGINE?
4. Valve covers.. can I use 1996 or later 4.3 VCs?
5. What is this "Mercruiser" 4.3 I keep seeing on EBay?
Thank you for your patience, and I WANT TO CONTINUE. I just need to put the puzzle together for myself, and I am still motivated to have the work done "where it sits" since Head Gaskets ARE in the capacity of a mobile mechanic, if it can't be me.. as we discussed..
Sincerely - Joseph
1. I have a 1993 VIN W truck. I DO know for a fact that this is a 1994 VIN W engine. Question: IS THAT SIGNIFICANT AT ALL, or does that mean NOTHING?
2. Question #2, related to Question #1: ARE all VIN Ws the same, 1992 through 1995? ( I had two 1991 trucks.. Though they have slightly lower HP, I think I liked them better.)
3. CAN I USE THIS AT ALL Edelbrock Part No. 2114 - Intake Manifolds (Edelbrock 2114) or can it be made to work, ON MY ENGINE?
4. Valve covers.. can I use 1996 or later 4.3 VCs?
5. What is this "Mercruiser" 4.3 I keep seeing on EBay?
Thank you for your patience, and I WANT TO CONTINUE. I just need to put the puzzle together for myself, and I am still motivated to have the work done "where it sits" since Head Gaskets ARE in the capacity of a mobile mechanic, if it can't be me.. as we discussed..
Sincerely - Joseph
