well, i like the functionallity of kenwoods, but i think their sq blows. the pioneer is an excellent deck. and i dont know anything about that alpine. but if its anything like the 9855, stay far far away from it.

 

looks like maybe an N1 or N2

 

Great, so I will look more in to the Pioneer deck. Thanks for your opinion.

 

Didn't say pioneer was crap. I said the same thing you did. It is not regarded as high end. I have gone from a top of the line Pioneer Premier to a middle of the row Eclipse and you can hear a difference. To be able to hear a difference just by switching head units means something tremendous happened. You can't say RF, Pioneer, or Alpine doesn't have a crap line....but could you point me in the direction of Eclipse's low end line? They haven't had one. Mark my words though....they will now.

 

nobody really runs anything hi end. pioneer isnt, alpine isnt, eclipse isnt. i love eclipse but theyre not that much better than pioneer decks. its a matter of preference. some people like a little more sq so theyll go for eclipse. some people like good sq but more flexability, so theyll choose pioneer. eclipses lower line is nuthing impressive at all. its easily comparible to some of pioneers mid-low line. just cause it had 5v preouts dont make it amazing. they still have a 1bit DAC like pioneers and weak EQs

 

Seems to me you just keep reiterating my points.

 

you originally said something along the lines of pioneer only being good for TVs or something. so i was proving you wrong... thats all.

 

No actually I said I never had a problem with Pioneer and found it a good value for the money, however, it has never been regarded as a high end brand UNLESS you are talking about TVs. That sir, is what I said.

 

your right, i misread that one or got confused or something. but you do seem to think eclipse is "hi end" or something. but it isnt at all. its within the range or pioneer alpine, clarion etc. there are very few people who run true hi end decks. u just dont see it. eclipse has its his and its got its lows, just like all the other companies. its just a matter of preference

 

So what do you consider high end? You said Denon but that's worse than Eclipse IMO. What companies numbers stand out above Eclipse or Clarion for that matter?