as far as offroading goes, yes it is easier to control your decent on hills with 4wd, overall 4wd is better then 2wd is so many ways when it comes to traction issues, you have more parts moving so yes its going to slow down faster then if you were in 2wd, when you're on ice it all goes out the window, ice=0% traction, doesn't matter how many tires you have. so i agree with both sides here, but a 4wd is gonna beat a 2wd any day.

thanks, i was wondering if anyone else was gonna point that ouy.

i'm trying not to piss on your parade Rob, but you should know that going up the hill is an advantage to the 4WD because it spreads out the traction to ALL 4 wheels, creating less chance of torque spin, thus creating more traction. as for decending a hill (see below)

everyone here seems to be missing the most obvious problem with this discussion-all of the trucks (well, except for Pat) are automatic, and unless someone has figured out how to keep their torque converter locked up when off the throttle, none of the trucks are gonna truely slow down their decent going down a grade.

i've said it (many times) before, the worst thing they (GM) ever did, was to get rid of the manual trans option in the 4 doors.

an while Kyle is right about the loss of control on ice (maybe snow), every situation is different. personally, i've know that having stick in my '92 saved my bacon quite a few times-on snow & in the mud anyways. on ice, it's pretty much a crap shoot (and a Clydesdale horse shoe in your back pocket) if you avoid the carnage coming @ you. or rather what carnage you're aimed @.

I know you threw in the towel, but look at it this way. In racing, friction used for cornering, CANNOT be used for acceleration. Likewise, friction used for braking cannot be used for turning. There's just too much kinetic energy there, and you actually overcome the co-efficient of friction between the pavement and tires sending you into a slide.

That being said, how is the act of engine BRAKING different from actually APPLYING the brakes? You're still asking the wheels to slow you down, applying a negative kinetic force. On ice however, that coefficient of friction is so small that almost nothing grips, and if there's a layer of water you're done.

Downshifting in a 4wd and a 2wd from the same speed ON SNOW may give the 4wd an advantage because now you have the friction of all 4 wheels working with you. 2wd will likely slide a little bit and slow down not as fast but you'll have more control over it because your front wheels will have more traction than the front wheels of the 4x4. TRUST ME. I've engine braked in slippery situations (I drive stick so it's easier for me yet.) And in 2wd, when the truck would get sideways I'd be able to keep it in my lane and keep going in the direction I wanted. However when I had it in 4wd and the same thing happened, because the front wheels were doing the same as the back (the negative energy was too great for the amount of friction offered by the slippery surface) I turned into a hockey puck (which was appropriate because my Blazer's black...) and I had no control of the direction in which I was sliding. By some divine miracle I missed an Exploder and a post and came to a (backwards) stop before entering the busy intersection. Shortly thereafter I invested in a set of winter tires, but that's another story.

Now, negative energy (If you don't know) it's the energy applied in such a way that it acts against the direction in which an object is travelling. In the case of a slide, the forward energy of the vehicle is too great for the frictional energies (aka negative energies) to overcome that forward motion. Such is the case on ice and slippery surfaces with a low co-efficient of friction. The larger the co-efficient, the more friction that surface has to offer. Two pieces of rubber rubbing together has a high co-efficient to name an example.

The biggest thing I can say about loss of control with a 4wd is, when you start sliding they tell you don't apply the brakes... that's because it'll lock up all 4 wheels and you're done. In 4wd, engine braking, is alot like applying the brakes. Now you've got all the frictional energy of the front tires working to try and slow you down, how can you control where you're going now? The same thing happens when FWD cars start understeering in a slippery condition, when my Cavalier would start doing this I'd get off the throttle and pop it in neutral, now I'm free wheeling and most all the energy was going towards making the turn instead of slowing me down in which case I would have kept on trucking and looking like this poor fellow:

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2658410_n.jpg

In conclusion, 4x4 is only good for straight line acceleration in slippery situations. Don't expect it to save you when you're trying to stop... If I had to chose between a controlled slide and experiencing what it feels like to be a hockey puck for the next 15 seconds... I'll take the controlled slide, and I'm sure that everyone would as well.

*EDIT* Sorry about the novel

:icon_doh:I forgot to mention ice... simply stated... that horse shoe you mentioned Chris? I think it would actually have to be up your arse, not just in your back pocket.

i'm still hurt about the part where i post joke pictures of driving on barkdust cals my ability to drive around in the woods into play when we were talking about stopping on ice :(