Pitman and Idler Arm Brands, Which to Choose?
#21
05-18-2010, 09:54 AM
Ok, I may have a problem here with the alignment of the setup or something else. I posted in a more relevant topic but haven't seen any replies, so in an effort to get an answer quickly, I'll re-post here:
Alignment shop called and said they can't do the alignment. The wheels are off (toe, not camber, i think) by 2.5 and 3 degrees. As I said the steering wheel is off by 45 degrees when the wheels are straight.
I am pretty sure that everything was aligned properly, but traced this to 2 causes. Please read below and tell me which you think is most likely. thanks!
1) When the steering box was in the vise and I was removing the nut holding the pitman arm on, the pitman arm may have rotated enough such that it 'bottomed out' and could not spin any further...until the nut came loose. Could that have damaged the steering box hydraulics or something else in there? Also, most of the fluid came out of the steering box while working on it, since the pitmar arm was rotating and pushing fluid out. Could there just be a bubble somewhere inside there screwing things up? I did many cycles of left/right after re-assembly to try to pump out the air though.
2) The steering box input rotates much more than the pitman arm does. coud it be that while the steering shaft and steering box input key up, the s.b. input shaft is rotated one revolution? I'd think this would make a bigger difference than the 3 degrees that the steering is off though.
I should just twist the steering shaft 5 degrees and call it a day haha. I wish, but not really. PLEASE HELP SOON!
I am pretty sure that everything was aligned properly, but traced this to 2 causes. Please read below and tell me which you think is most likely. thanks!
1) When the steering box was in the vise and I was removing the nut holding the pitman arm on, the pitman arm may have rotated enough such that it 'bottomed out' and could not spin any further...until the nut came loose. Could that have damaged the steering box hydraulics or something else in there? Also, most of the fluid came out of the steering box while working on it, since the pitmar arm was rotating and pushing fluid out. Could there just be a bubble somewhere inside there screwing things up? I did many cycles of left/right after re-assembly to try to pump out the air though.
2) The steering box input rotates much more than the pitman arm does. coud it be that while the steering shaft and steering box input key up, the s.b. input shaft is rotated one revolution? I'd think this would make a bigger difference than the 3 degrees that the steering is off though.
I should just twist the steering shaft 5 degrees and call it a day haha. I wish, but not really. PLEASE HELP SOON!
#23
05-18-2010, 12:25 PM
AHAHAHAHAH! Ok, I'll look around for another garage. But just to clarify on what he said, he told me that in order to align the steering wheel and set the tires straight, there would possibly be too little tie-rod left in the adjustment sleeve and that hitting a hard bump on a turn or something could cause the tie rod to come out. I KNOW I don't want that to happen.
I'll take it elsewhere and see what they say...
I'll take it elsewhere and see what they say...
#25
05-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Agreed, that's why I find this strange. The old Idler Arm was Moog, and the old Pitman arm has no name on it, just a few numbers. It could be some crappy Chinese part and maybe that's why things were off originally?
The new idler and pitman are USA parts from Napa, so they should fit no problem. Both tie rods appear to be approximately equally threaded, so it doesn't seem like they had been offset to compensate for old/crappy parts prior to this work.
Either way, I loosely joined the steering link to the steering box, then turned the steering wheel to force the coupling to seat in a position other than the one it's keyed to fit in. Not ideal, but it seems to hold strong. Like this, the wheel turns about 1 1/4 turns in each direction.
I'm going to have a mechanic align the wheels professionally on Thursday.
The new idler and pitman are USA parts from Napa, so they should fit no problem. Both tie rods appear to be approximately equally threaded, so it doesn't seem like they had been offset to compensate for old/crappy parts prior to this work.
Either way, I loosely joined the steering link to the steering box, then turned the steering wheel to force the coupling to seat in a position other than the one it's keyed to fit in. Not ideal, but it seems to hold strong. Like this, the wheel turns about 1 1/4 turns in each direction.
I'm going to have a mechanic align the wheels professionally on Thursday.
#26
05-19-2010, 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by jsmz
i dont know what kind of shop you went to for your alignment, but go somewhere else. try a NAPA auto care center.
Ive found that alignment tecs are probably the most incompetent species of human ive encountered yet.
90% of the time they dont know wtf they are talking about. every time ive been told that by an alignment shop.. they were flat out wrong and being lazy.
have a MECHANIC do your alignment, not a $7.50 an hour pimple faced jerkoff.
Ive found that alignment tecs are probably the most incompetent species of human ive encountered yet.
90% of the time they dont know wtf they are talking about. every time ive been told that by an alignment shop.. they were flat out wrong and being lazy.
have a MECHANIC do your alignment, not a $7.50 an hour pimple faced jerkoff.
i've had an tire/alignment shop scrub my BN front tires on my old 'Burb, 'cause he said i didn't set it up right after replacing the inners/outers. funny, the old "measuring the boards trick" always worked before. he told me he couldn't do an alignment since both rad support mounts were shot (no bottom parts to them) and this would cause the body/frame to flex independantly, making the alignment worthless, and a waste of money.
funny how after 7 weeks of my alignement you didn't see anything on the tires, but after 3 weeks of his "adjustment", i had cords showing through on a thrid of the outside tread are. he said i had the tires toed out too much.
of course that dumbass wasn't working there anymore when i went back, and they wouldn't do anything about the cost of 2 new tires, but they said they'd give me a break, & didn't charge me for the alignment (how nice of them!). i never fixed the mounts, and this was @ a shop where i "thought" i knew them pretty well. guess i was just another *** to screw over.
#28
05-19-2010, 12:15 PM
I agree with everyone else. Get a second opinion. I've never been to an alignment shop that didn't come up with at least 1 bs problem.
#29
05-20-2010, 06:39 AM
Ah, what a pain in the ***, but I'm glad I'm on this forum and have some other people to ask about garages here.
I just moved into a new area and went with an American Tire & Auto garage because it seemed like it was not a chain, and looked relatively clean. A guy I talked to after I had my tires mounted said they screwed his alignment up and still charged him. I had them change my oil and they left the oil cap sitting on my fan shroud...luckily the force of the hood pushing on it held it there so it didn't get lost before I realized.
He was nice enough to not touch my alignment and call me with his crap excuse though...so I don't owe them anything.
When I was in there, the sales clerk was selling a woman a set of tires for her car for $1200. HA! I'm done with that place -- poor woman is paying wayy too much in my opinion.
The truck is at a Napa Auto Care place now and I'm picking it up after work today. I'm confident they'll do it right.
I just moved into a new area and went with an American Tire & Auto garage because it seemed like it was not a chain, and looked relatively clean. A guy I talked to after I had my tires mounted said they screwed his alignment up and still charged him. I had them change my oil and they left the oil cap sitting on my fan shroud...luckily the force of the hood pushing on it held it there so it didn't get lost before I realized.
He was nice enough to not touch my alignment and call me with his crap excuse though...so I don't owe them anything.
When I was in there, the sales clerk was selling a woman a set of tires for her car for $1200. HA! I'm done with that place -- poor woman is paying wayy too much in my opinion.
The truck is at a Napa Auto Care place now and I'm picking it up after work today. I'm confident they'll do it right.
#30
05-20-2010, 07:12 PM
COME ON!!! It's as if the man in the sky wants to draw this out until the truck is too old to drive!
Some car that was on the alignment rack before me had some problem and wouldn't be off there until tomorrow afternoon, then it's the weekend. So, looks like next Tuesday is the rain check. I hope this gets finished ONE DAY
Some car that was on the alignment rack before me had some problem and wouldn't be off there until tomorrow afternoon, then it's the weekend. So, looks like next Tuesday is the rain check. I hope this gets finished ONE DAY
