Help w my 99 no start, have fuel and spark
#1
05-28-2014 | 07:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 13
Help w my 99 no start, have fuel and spark
Ok I use this site often and u guys are tremendous! I have done the leak down test: it's ok , 64 psi and hardly dropped at all in 10 min, new distributor, rotor because it looked bad, I was thinking no spark, it will not throw codes, checked ign module that's ok, have strong spark from coil, now here's the prob, I needed a battery, put it in last week, still no start, yesterday tried to start and bam! It started, but I just barely tapped the starter, if I hold the key it just tries to turn over
When it did start I let it idle for 5 min and thought I won the battle even though I really didn't do anything since replacing parts and still had no start, anyway I drove it round the block at 15 mph and no prob, idled at 750 rpm or so ( stronger than it had previously) but when I got out and have it gas it sputtered and died as it had done when it first broke down, like I ran out of gas( which I have) I tried carb cleaner in the tb and no start, but since I did get it to idle and run for 15 min with no misfires I know it's not timing , spark or fuel, I'm at my wits end and my wife is getting mad cuz I have her car for work and she is stranded. !!! Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated
When it did start I let it idle for 5 min and thought I won the battle even though I really didn't do anything since replacing parts and still had no start, anyway I drove it round the block at 15 mph and no prob, idled at 750 rpm or so ( stronger than it had previously) but when I got out and have it gas it sputtered and died as it had done when it first broke down, like I ran out of gas( which I have) I tried carb cleaner in the tb and no start, but since I did get it to idle and run for 15 min with no misfires I know it's not timing , spark or fuel, I'm at my wits end and my wife is getting mad cuz I have her car for work and she is stranded. !!! Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated
#3
05-28-2014 | 08:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
If it doesn't start with a shot of carb cleaner, there's probably a lack of spark, (which will not set a DTC or turn the SES light on). You have spark at the coil, but if the spark doesn't make it to the proper plug, at the proper time, it will not start. Crossfire inside the distributor cap is very common on this engine, which can cause an intermittent no start condition. For this reason, aftermarket caps are not recommended, AT ALL. Use AC Delco only.
#4
05-28-2014 | 09:49 PM
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Ya I have fuel at the rail and I just replaced filter, gotta work now but I'll check back tomorrow, thx so much, and it did run for 15 min yes but died once it up to 25 mph, or maybe bc I gave it gas???
#5
05-28-2014 | 09:53 PM
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If it doesn't start with a shot of carb cleaner, there's probably a lack of spark, (which will not set a DTC or turn the SES light on). You have spark at the coil, but if the spark doesn't make it to the proper plug, at the proper time, it will not start. Crossfire inside the distributor cap is very common on this engine, which can cause an intermittent no start condition. For this reason, aftermarket caps are not recommended, AT ALL. Use AC Delco only.
#6
05-29-2014 | 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
Pretty much anything can be intermittent, and distributor caps are no exception. Secondary ignition parts on this vehicle are not a place to cut corners using cheap parts
Aftermarket stuff doesn't cut it, even when it's brand new. Plug wires need to be good quality: Not necessarily AC Delco, but certainly not a "store brand". Spark plugs, cap & rotor need to be AC Delco if you want good performance & longevity.
Something else that may be contributing to the problem, and worth checking, is camshaft retard. It is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor, to align the camshaft position sensor, (inside the cap) with the camshaft. The adjustment also positions the terminals on the cap where they need to be when the ignition coil fires. Rotating the distributor does NOT affect ignition timing on this engine. Camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted whenever the distributor is removed, or the hold down bolt is loosened. It is checked on a scan tool capable of accessing camshaft retard streaming data, (the el cheapo scan tools at the auto parts stores can't access it). As camshaft retard gets farther out of spec, the distance between the rotor and the cap terminals increases, which causes crossfire inside the cap. The farther off it is, the more crossfire there is. Too much crossfire and the engine might not even start. Spec is zero degrees plus or minus 2 degrees. If it's out of spec, crossfire and engine misfires are goin'n on, guaranteed. It may or may not set a DTC in memory, until it exceeds ~26 degrees. Condensation can and does form on the under side of the cap, (normal). Moisture causes crossfire to occur more easily. If crossfire is excessive, the cap will fail prematurely, sometimes immediately after it's installed.
Aftermarket stuff doesn't cut it, even when it's brand new. Plug wires need to be good quality: Not necessarily AC Delco, but certainly not a "store brand". Spark plugs, cap & rotor need to be AC Delco if you want good performance & longevity. Something else that may be contributing to the problem, and worth checking, is camshaft retard. It is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor, to align the camshaft position sensor, (inside the cap) with the camshaft. The adjustment also positions the terminals on the cap where they need to be when the ignition coil fires. Rotating the distributor does NOT affect ignition timing on this engine. Camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted whenever the distributor is removed, or the hold down bolt is loosened. It is checked on a scan tool capable of accessing camshaft retard streaming data, (the el cheapo scan tools at the auto parts stores can't access it). As camshaft retard gets farther out of spec, the distance between the rotor and the cap terminals increases, which causes crossfire inside the cap. The farther off it is, the more crossfire there is. Too much crossfire and the engine might not even start. Spec is zero degrees plus or minus 2 degrees. If it's out of spec, crossfire and engine misfires are goin'n on, guaranteed. It may or may not set a DTC in memory, until it exceeds ~26 degrees. Condensation can and does form on the under side of the cap, (normal). Moisture causes crossfire to occur more easily. If crossfire is excessive, the cap will fail prematurely, sometimes immediately after it's installed.
#7
05-30-2014 | 03:24 AM
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Beginning Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 13
Pretty much anything can be intermittent, and distributor caps are no exception. Secondary ignition parts on this vehicle are not a place to cut corners using cheap parts Aftermarket stuff doesn't cut it, even when it's brand new. Plug wires need to be good quality: Not necessarily AC Delco, but certainly not a "store brand". Spark plugs, cap & rotor need to be AC Delco if you want good performance & longevity.
Something else that may be contributing to the problem, and worth checking, is camshaft retard. It is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor, to align the camshaft position sensor, (inside the cap) with the camshaft. The adjustment also positions the terminals on the cap where they need to be when the ignition coil fires. Rotating the distributor does NOT affect ignition timing on this engine. Camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted whenever the distributor is removed, or the hold down bolt is loosened. It is checked on a scan tool capable of accessing camshaft retard streaming data, (the el cheapo scan tools at the auto parts stores can't access it). As camshaft retard gets farther out of spec, the distance between the rotor and the cap terminals increases, which causes crossfire inside the cap. The farther off it is, the more crossfire there is. Too much crossfire and the engine might not even start. Spec is zero degrees plus or minus 2 degrees. If it's out of spec, crossfire and engine misfires are goin'n on, guaranteed. It may or may not set a DTC in memory, until it exceeds ~26 degrees. Condensation can and does form on the under side of the cap, (normal). Moisture causes crossfire to occur more easily. If crossfire is excessive, the cap will fail prematurely, sometimes immediately after it's installed.
Aftermarket stuff doesn't cut it, even when it's brand new. Plug wires need to be good quality: Not necessarily AC Delco, but certainly not a "store brand". Spark plugs, cap & rotor need to be AC Delco if you want good performance & longevity. Something else that may be contributing to the problem, and worth checking, is camshaft retard. It is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor, to align the camshaft position sensor, (inside the cap) with the camshaft. The adjustment also positions the terminals on the cap where they need to be when the ignition coil fires. Rotating the distributor does NOT affect ignition timing on this engine. Camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted whenever the distributor is removed, or the hold down bolt is loosened. It is checked on a scan tool capable of accessing camshaft retard streaming data, (the el cheapo scan tools at the auto parts stores can't access it). As camshaft retard gets farther out of spec, the distance between the rotor and the cap terminals increases, which causes crossfire inside the cap. The farther off it is, the more crossfire there is. Too much crossfire and the engine might not even start. Spec is zero degrees plus or minus 2 degrees. If it's out of spec, crossfire and engine misfires are goin'n on, guaranteed. It may or may not set a DTC in memory, until it exceeds ~26 degrees. Condensation can and does form on the under side of the cap, (normal). Moisture causes crossfire to occur more easily. If crossfire is excessive, the cap will fail prematurely, sometimes immediately after it's installed.
I bought a new cam pos sensor should I throw it in, I've been fixing my vehicles for 15 yrs and have never brought it in to a mechanic, but I'm ready to throw in the towel on this one, thx for the suggestions , I'll have have it towed to do the timing test like u said shade tree mechs like me don't have those lying around
Last edited by shnafu; 05-30-2014 at 03:28 AM. Reason: Not complete
#8
05-30-2014 | 09:56 AM
New Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 80
From: Palm Bay, Fl
The captain is so right ac delco cap and rotor first then you will not waste money on parts you don't need,I spent lots of money and finally replaced with A/C Delco cap and rotor and its great no cross firing inside cap.
The Hook is great !!!!!
The Hook is great !!!!!
#9
05-30-2014 | 11:54 AM
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Posts: n/a
Go to the BF homepage, in the google box type in "ignition switch" read and see if anything applies to your problem.
GM has always had a problem. 97's on are trucks were the most common but they all sucked. If what I read is correct and your going 25 and it shuts off that very well might be your problem. As I said read and see what you think.
The thing that concerns me about the ignition switch diagnosis is there is generally no "sputtering" they just shut down.
GM has always had a problem. 97's on are trucks were the most common but they all sucked. If what I read is correct and your going 25 and it shuts off that very well might be your problem. As I said read and see what you think.
The thing that concerns me about the ignition switch diagnosis is there is generally no "sputtering" they just shut down.
Last edited by spittybays; 05-30-2014 at 12:09 PM.
#10
05-30-2014 | 02:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
vegie_2, Thanks.
shnafu, if there is a DTC in memory for the camshaft position sensor, and following the flow chart specifically instructs you to replace the sensor, fine, replace it. If not, save your time, energy and money, don't replace it. If you do replace it, camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted afterward.
Camshaft retard is not a timing test, it has nothing to do with ignition timing. Data from the cam sensor is used along with data from the crankshaft position sensor to detect and accurately identify cylinder misfire. When camshaft retard is adjusted correctly, you can completely disconnect the sensor and the engine will start and run fine. The check engine light will come on, a DTC will be set in memory, and cylinder misfire detection data will be nonexistant, but it will start and run just fine.
If the crankshaft position sensor is disturbed, it will affect ignition timing because that's where the ignition pulse is generated. If the sensor takes a crap, the engine will not start due to no spark.
shnafu, if there is a DTC in memory for the camshaft position sensor, and following the flow chart specifically instructs you to replace the sensor, fine, replace it. If not, save your time, energy and money, don't replace it. If you do replace it, camshaft retard needs to be checked and adjusted afterward.
Camshaft retard is not a timing test, it has nothing to do with ignition timing. Data from the cam sensor is used along with data from the crankshaft position sensor to detect and accurately identify cylinder misfire. When camshaft retard is adjusted correctly, you can completely disconnect the sensor and the engine will start and run fine. The check engine light will come on, a DTC will be set in memory, and cylinder misfire detection data will be nonexistant, but it will start and run just fine.
If the crankshaft position sensor is disturbed, it will affect ignition timing because that's where the ignition pulse is generated. If the sensor takes a crap, the engine will not start due to no spark.