Engine & Transmission Post your Engine and Transmission related problems here.

1999 ZR2 Blazer Starting Issues

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 10, 2013 | 06:30 PM
  #11  
BlazerGuy2001's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 702
From: Rochester Hills, Michigan
BlazerGuy2001 is on a distinguished road
Default

Originally Posted by rockp2
Hey Captain...assuming he has not removed the distributor, it wouldn't be possible for it to move a tooth would it? Do you think the ECT being unplugged could have thrown the timing off some? I read that somewhere. Or is there no way that the ECT could throw off the timing be enough to display a P1345?

Of course, if the distributor has been removed at one time or another, that would probably be the answer.
The distributor was off when they put the new engine in I'm sure. The code has been on ever since my family has gotten it, so it could be off like he said by one tooth. I assume this would make it throw the code and account for the lag, while not preventing it from running completely.
 
Old Feb 10, 2013 | 06:37 PM
  #12  
Captain Hook's Avatar
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
Captain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the rough
Default

ECT has nothing to do with cam crank correlation. Even if the distributor drive gear was worn, I don't think it could, or would, jump just one tooth. More likely it would shear the teeth off the gear and the engine would quit. Camshaft retard has to be off ~27 degrees or more for the DTC to set. There only a few things that can set P1345: 1) If the timing chain jumps. 2) If the distributor loosened up and moved far enough. 3) The distributor was removed and not installed properly.

The crankshaft gear has 22 teeth, the camshaft gear has 44 teeth, if the timing chain jumps one tooth, camshaft retard will show ~12 degrees. The distributor gear and the cam gear each have 13 teeth, if it's off by one tooth, camshaft retard will show ~27 degrees. Checking camshaft retard on a scan tool would give a huge clue as to what happened.
 

Last edited by Captain Hook; Feb 10, 2013 at 06:49 PM.
Old Feb 10, 2013 | 07:02 PM
  #13  
BlazerGuy2001's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 702
From: Rochester Hills, Michigan
BlazerGuy2001 is on a distinguished road
Default

I will do my best to take a look at what the retard is. I understand how it can definitely tell you what is most likely wrong.
 
Old Feb 10, 2013 | 07:14 PM
  #14  
Captain Hook's Avatar
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
Captain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the rough
Default

Yeah, but that's assuming camshaft retard was correct before whatever went wrong. There is a thread on the forum that explains how to install the distributor. In your case, where it's at least close, I think I would pull the distributor cap off, then manually rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the timing marks line up perfectly, and the rotor segment is within ~20 degress or so of the "6" on the housing. Then pull the distributor and reinstall it so the segment is as close as possible to the "6".

Name:  43LVortecFinding1TDC-Copy.jpg
Views: 98
Size:  18.6 KB


 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 ZR2 Blazer Starting Issues-334555.jpg  
Old Feb 10, 2013 | 07:15 PM
  #15  
rockp2's Avatar
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,139
From: Pennsylvania
rockp2 will become famous soon enough
Default

Originally Posted by Captain Hook
ECT has nothing to do with cam crank correlation. Even if the distributor drive gear was worn, I don't think it could, or would, jump just one tooth. More likely it would shear the teeth off the gear and the engine would quit. Camshaft retard has to be off ~27 degrees or more for the DTC to set. There only a few things that can set P1345: 1) If the timing chain jumps. 2) If the distributor loosened up and moved far enough. 3) The distributor was removed and not installed properly.

The crankshaft gear has 22 teeth, the camshaft gear has 44 teeth, if the timing chain jumps one tooth, camshaft retard will show ~12 degrees. The distributor gear and the cam gear each have 13 teeth, if it's off by one tooth, camshaft retard will show ~27 degrees. Checking camshaft retard on a scan tool would give a huge clue as to what happened.
Thanks for the lesson...again (Now take a look at my engine swap thread and tell me what the heck I did wrong...pretty please)
 
Old Feb 11, 2013 | 10:22 AM
  #16  
BlazerGuy2001's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 702
From: Rochester Hills, Michigan
BlazerGuy2001 is on a distinguished road
Default

Originally Posted by Captain Hook
Yeah, but that's assuming camshaft retard was correct before whatever went wrong. There is a thread on the forum that explains how to install the distributor. In your case, where it's at least close, I think I would pull the distributor cap off, then manually rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the timing marks line up perfectly, and the rotor segment is within ~20 degress or so of the "6" on the housing. Then pull the distributor and reinstall it so the segment is as close as possible to the "6".




Woo thanks for the procedure there. I'm going to give that a shot sometime this week. If the camshaft retard is off i think I'm just going to sit down and cry...not really but would that then involve taking off the timing cover and chain and adjusting it?
 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 ZR2 Blazer Starting Issues-43lvortecfinding1tdc-copy.jpg  
Old Feb 11, 2013 | 04:01 PM
  #17  
Captain Hook's Avatar
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
Captain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the rough
Default

Camshaft retard is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor. The streaming data is viewed only on a capable scan tool, (the el cheapo $500 jobbies can't access it). If /when the distributor is disturbed or removed, camshaft retard should be checked & adjusted if necessary. Desired spec is zero degrees with a tolerance of + or - 2 degrees. Just an FYI: If you remove the distributor, the odds are astronomically against you getting it back in spec without using a scan tool.
 
Old Feb 11, 2013 | 05:00 PM
  #18  
BlazerGuy2001's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 702
From: Rochester Hills, Michigan
BlazerGuy2001 is on a distinguished road
Default

Originally Posted by Captain Hook
Camshaft retard is adjusted by slightly rotating the distributor. The streaming data is viewed only on a capable scan tool, (the el cheapo $500 jobbies can't access it). If /when the distributor is disturbed or removed, camshaft retard should be checked & adjusted if necessary. Desired spec is zero degrees with a tolerance of + or - 2 degrees. Just an FYI: If you remove the distributor, the odds are astronomically against you getting it back in spec without using a scan tool.
So what you are saying is that chances are neither of them are in spec unless the last guy did it all right. And the process i should follow is checking the distributor to crankshaft correlation first then take it to a shop with a nice scan tool and adjust the camshaft to distributor angle slightly until i get it within spec?
 
Old Feb 11, 2013 | 05:09 PM
  #19  
Captain Hook's Avatar
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,453
From: Belleville, Michigan
Captain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the roughCaptain Hook is a jewel in the rough
Default

The timing chain is probably ok. Check and adjust camshaft retard should be under an hour labor. Not really sure why they call it "camshaft retard", as far as I'm concerned it should be called "camshaft position sensor alignment" because that's what it does... aligns the sensor with the camshaft.
 
Old Mar 10, 2013 | 12:22 PM
  #20  
racechaplain's Avatar
Beginning Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 41
racechaplain is on a distinguished road
Default

at what idle are you making this adjustment?
 



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 PM.