Crank no start when is cold
Thread Starter
|
Beginning Member
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 13
we are at 68°. So I tested the cable for a second time while cranking, and this time, it started right up. Still I don't understand how can thus happen only when is cold.
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,343
From: North Central Indiana
If the pink wire is hot with key on (engine not cranking), it should stay hot while engine is cranking. If not, then bad ignition switch. This should also be true at ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box. Let me add another test because it's easy - do the same at the ENG fuse.
It seems it will end up being ignition switch, but best to wait until it fails this last testing.
Current goes through the ignition switch during start and run positions to underhood fuse box and then splits. One part goes through ENG fuse in underhood fuse box and then evap canister purge solenoid, evap canister vent solenoid, MAF sensor, and cam position sensor. The other part goes through ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box - then to crank sensor, module, coil, ECM, & fuel injectors. I don't see any reason why any of these items whould drag the voltage down during cranking without blowing a fuse, but there is always a remote possibility of something off the wall.
I once had a customer's late 70's Olds Toronado because the intermittent wipers would take one swipe across the windshield every time the brake was depressed. Problem was a bad tail light bulb and a blown fuse. When the brakes were stepped on, voltage was conducted across the bulb by a broken turn filament lying across the tail lamp filament. Somehow the combo of the blown fuse and tail lamp bulb cause voltage to backfeed and trigger the intermittent wiper module to take a swipe. IIRC I had the logic on how this took place all laid out at the time, but as memorable as it was I just can't remember it anymore.
Another time I had a customer's Buick Firehawk (remember them) that would start and them immediately die. Turned out to be a bad voltage regulator in the alternator charging with such high voltage that the computer would freak out and shut things down to protect itself!
Nothing electrical on cars really surprises me anymore.
It seems it will end up being ignition switch, but best to wait until it fails this last testing.
Current goes through the ignition switch during start and run positions to underhood fuse box and then splits. One part goes through ENG fuse in underhood fuse box and then evap canister purge solenoid, evap canister vent solenoid, MAF sensor, and cam position sensor. The other part goes through ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box - then to crank sensor, module, coil, ECM, & fuel injectors. I don't see any reason why any of these items whould drag the voltage down during cranking without blowing a fuse, but there is always a remote possibility of something off the wall.
I once had a customer's late 70's Olds Toronado because the intermittent wipers would take one swipe across the windshield every time the brake was depressed. Problem was a bad tail light bulb and a blown fuse. When the brakes were stepped on, voltage was conducted across the bulb by a broken turn filament lying across the tail lamp filament. Somehow the combo of the blown fuse and tail lamp bulb cause voltage to backfeed and trigger the intermittent wiper module to take a swipe. IIRC I had the logic on how this took place all laid out at the time, but as memorable as it was I just can't remember it anymore.
Another time I had a customer's Buick Firehawk (remember them) that would start and them immediately die. Turned out to be a bad voltage regulator in the alternator charging with such high voltage that the computer would freak out and shut things down to protect itself!
Nothing electrical on cars really surprises me anymore.
Last edited by LesMyer; Dec 22, 2023 at 12:46 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Beginning Member
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 13
If the pink wire is hot with key on (engine not cranking), it should stay hot while engine is cranking. If not, then bad ignition switch. This should also be true at ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box. Let me add another test because it's easy - do the same at the ENG fuse.
It seems it will end up being ignition switch, but best to wait until it fails this last testing.
Current goes through the ignition switch during start and run positions to underhood fuse box and then splits. One part goes through ENG fuse in underhood fuse box and then evap canister purge solenoid, evap canister vent solenoid, MAF sensor, and cam position sensor. The other part goes through ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box - then to crank sensor, module, coil, ECM, & fuel injectors. I don't see any reason why any of these items whould drag the voltage down during cranking without blowing a fuse, but there is always a remote possibility of something off the wall.
I once had a customer's late 70's Olds Toronado because the intermittent wipers would take one swipe across the windshield every time the brake was depressed. Problem was a bad tail light bulb and a blown fuse. When the brakes were stepped on, voltage was conducted across the bulb by a broken turn filament lying across the tail lamp filament. Somehow the combo of the blown fuse and tail lamp bulb cause voltage to backfeed and trigger the intermittent wiper module to take a swipe. IIRC I had the logic on how this took place all laid out at the time, but as memorable as it was I just can't remember it anymore.
Another time I had a customer's Buick Firehawk (remember them) that would start and them immediately die. Turned out to be a bad voltage regulator in the alternator charging with such high voltage that the computer would freak out and shut things down to protect itself!
Nothing electrical on cars really surprises me anymore.
It seems it will end up being ignition switch, but best to wait until it fails this last testing.
Current goes through the ignition switch during start and run positions to underhood fuse box and then splits. One part goes through ENG fuse in underhood fuse box and then evap canister purge solenoid, evap canister vent solenoid, MAF sensor, and cam position sensor. The other part goes through ECM 1 fuse in underhood fuse box - then to crank sensor, module, coil, ECM, & fuel injectors. I don't see any reason why any of these items whould drag the voltage down during cranking without blowing a fuse, but there is always a remote possibility of something off the wall.
I once had a customer's late 70's Olds Toronado because the intermittent wipers would take one swipe across the windshield every time the brake was depressed. Problem was a bad tail light bulb and a blown fuse. When the brakes were stepped on, voltage was conducted across the bulb by a broken turn filament lying across the tail lamp filament. Somehow the combo of the blown fuse and tail lamp bulb cause voltage to backfeed and trigger the intermittent wiper module to take a swipe. IIRC I had the logic on how this took place all laid out at the time, but as memorable as it was I just can't remember it anymore.
Another time I had a customer's Buick Firehawk (remember them) that would start and them immediately die. Turned out to be a bad voltage regulator in the alternator charging with such high voltage that the computer would freak out and shut things down to protect itself!
Nothing electrical on cars really surprises me anymore.
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,343
From: North Central Indiana
Problem could be anywhere between the ignition switch and the underhood fuse box. Are you sure you are testing the correct cuicuit coming out of the ignition switch?
Thread Starter
|
Beginning Member
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 13
I'm testing a pink cable with a light tester. There is power when I open the switch and there is power when is cranking. There one small pink wire and a big one. I'm testing the big one. I would the test tomorrow morning again to be sure
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,343
From: North Central Indiana
Edited : sorry, info previously posted in this particular one was not correct. Ill try to get the correct pin assignment on the ignition switch connector.
Last edited by LesMyer; Dec 29, 2023 at 03:38 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,343
From: North Central Indiana
Attachments show 1) location of C211 and 2) where pin C5 is in connector. This is the feed out of the ignition switch. You will need to arrow down to the C211 table in the first attachment to see the pin assignments.
You are nearing the end of the diagnosis.
You are nearing the end of the diagnosis.
Last edited by LesMyer; Dec 29, 2023 at 04:03 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Beginning Member
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 13
It was the ignition switch. We are at 34° today, I replaced the ignition switch with one from the junk yard, just to see if it will start. I'll buy a new one. Thank you so much for your help
you can the discoloration in the right side of the terminals.
