Hey all,

We have a 2003 Blazer (S10 4DR V6) that is still down at a mechanics shop here in Bozeman, MT. We had Best Rate Towing come out to our house two days ago to tow it in to their shop (okay, mistake #1) instead of having them tow it right to Danhof Chevrolet (in Amsterdam, MT) to begin with. Danhof is the best place on earth that we know of to ever have a chevy product worked on for every imaginable reason.

Anyway, this is the second time Best Rate has had the opportunity to work on this vehicle. 1st time was on 12/18/07 when they replaced the fuel filter ($33), fuel pump ($450 Holy CRAP!), and fuel pump relay switch ($18). The problem of not starting showed up again this past Tuesday night when my wife (she bought it brand new in '03 from over in Livingston, MT) kept it running over at the neighbors while she was in their house for a while, came out, drove home (3/4 mile), shut it down, and it would not start again.

The battery seemed to be toast, which is understandable as it has been 5 years on that one. I tried to jump start it with my incredibly dependable '91 toyota truck, which resulted in it sounding plain-as-day that it was NOT getting any fuel, which was correct. It obviously wasn't getting any fuel. had Best Rate come get it and take a look at it only to find that the fuel pump relay switch was supposedly bad AFTER changing out the battery ($95 from O'Reillys that Best Rate put in today) AND the alternator as he suspected the original alternator was pushing out 15+ Volts = which he says is enough to burn up a battery. (my question here was IF the alternator had a bad regulator, let's say, would that be the result? over-supply of voltage output, which in turn would possibly lead to burned out components on down the line of the electrical system?

I just talked with my brother, who is a pretty doggone knowledgable troubleshooter of problems like this and endless number of others with vehicles, and he recommended getting the old alternator from wherever it is and having it tested MYSELF at any auto parts store, and get prices of parts from Danhof Chevrolet and auto-supply retailers in town (Best Rate uses CarQuest, which is good in my opinion) and taking those price quotes to Best Rate Towing to challenge the costs of some of their parts, and never go back to them again. for instance, even though this was a month ago, $450 for a fuel pump??? The most expensive one I could find online was around $300 or a little more. this is just a tow/repair shop = mistake to EVER let them work on ANYTHING that the dealer (NOT RESSLER Chevrolet either! Always go to Danhof instead) and this mechanic just doesn't know what he's doing. so $1350 LATER (including $72/hr labor * 5.7hrs) to this towing company and the problem still isn't fixed. I am seeing that all we got for this exorbitant fee was a change of fuel filter, very overpriced fuel pump, fuel pump relay, which is looking like it has a burnt looking little brown spot on it next to a darker pole of the four on the switch currently (the mechanic showed me that today), an expensive battery, and an alternator that probably was not needed.

Are the terminals replaceable individually or does the entire fuse block under the hood need to be replaced?

ANY ADVICE I promise will be extremely appreciated on this mess!
so tomorrow I am planning on first thing in teh morning calling whoever is teh cheapest towing company to haul it over to Amsterdam to Danhof and have them do what they usually do... doing it RIGHT the first time.

Many Thanks to all who just read all that stuff. sorry for any incoherence. it's real late and I'm real tired. I know this kind of became a rant almost.
Chuck

 

An alternator could possibly put out around 15V, just depends on if they are rounding... That should not cause a short in the fuel pump relay. You could have the alternator tested, but if it is putting out that much voltage (and associated current)... The other way of looking at this is that the alternator output is controlled by the PCM in your vehicle. It is possible that something is causing the PCM to think it needs the alternator at max output... In that case, if you test the alternator and it shows that it is good, then you may have to look deeper into it.

To answer your question on the fuse box. If the terminal is burnt, it may be easier/better to get a replacement fuse/relay center from a junkyard and install it. That is only if the connection is really bad in the box. If it is just discolored, but still makes good connection, it shouldn't be too big of a problem.

I am surprised that the fuse did not blow instead of shorting the relay... That just doesn't make sense unless they put in an improper relay for the job. I would start with checking the fuses and replacing that relay. Go to a chevy dealer and pick up a new relay from them and then go over to the tow company, install it and see if you can't drive it away, never looking back.

 

WEll, as the blazer saga continues today, the mechanic's feeling the need to forgive all or almost all parts and labor from this point forward to return my wife's car to her at an expense to them. not a "hurry up on it and get it out of here" type of instance, but moreso a "we are going to do everything possible to make sure it is 100% before it leaves." That's good news. After talking with Bob out at Danhof Chevrolet (where we would've had it towed if we weren't in such a bind at the time), he said “well, there’s just no way we can start in the middle of another mechanic’s progress, we’d have to start from the beginning and figure it out from there, which may be a few hours of labor right there.�

on a most updated note as of a minute ago: Dan at Best Rate said he pulled the fuse/relay center off and because it looks as though it cannot be opened to service he'll just have to find one somewhere, used preferrably. EXACTLY like you said Swart.

He did find one locally at the dealer for $200, which is more than he is willing to soakup himself to complete this project. so he is looking for a more affordable one elsewhere in salvage yards in Spokane and Idaho Falls and wherever quickly. yeah! boo. crap. ugh. makes me ill seeing a hundreds of dollars go into a small problem. yeah, I know electrical problems are the blight of probably every small-shop mechanic, but at least he's trying to keep it painless as possible for us.

Thanks again Swart, and any more input is VERY welcomed at this point. do I just tell him "go ahead and throw the $200 one in there?

We ain't made of cash, and the money tree has shed its leaves mostly by this point. But being SO close to the end of the job, with only $200 in the way of finishing, what would you do?

Thanks again,
Chuck
p.s. I'm watching for your feedback on this every few minutes here in hopes of being able to call him back real soon and maybe have it done today yet. it'd be close.

 

okay, cancel that $200 one. he found one for $75, but what worries me now (yeah it's my nature) is the fact that one of the places he called that carries these fuse/relay centers told him the units differ depending on what amenities the model of vehicle has, i.e, power brakes, power windows, etc.

is that true?

thanks for any education here. I really need it.
Chuck

 

Yes, they differ depending on options. Again, I'm wondering why you would replace the whole thing... I would first try a new OEM relay and see what it does. If it is making contact, the discoloration doesn't do anything but look bad.

 

Thanks again Swart,

from what he told me when he really looked closely at the female contact points in the relay, he said they were definitely burnt looking inside also, which lead him to believe that part of the unserviceable fuse/relay center is bad - hence replacing the whole thing. HOWEVER, come first thing Monday morning, I will go to work late and go try one more brand new relay MYSELF just to see (at $17, I am seeing it to be a worthy chance taken here) to see if that one craps out also for some reason, or shows any signs of failure.

as far as different fuse/relay centers for different models, I can't imagine the one he maybe already ordered for $75 will match this vehicle exactly, which it sounds by your reply is exactly what is needed. to be matched to the specific vehicle is imperative I am gathering. makes perfect sense to me. doggonit. he's lead around by his own ignorance it seems to me, and I keep supporting it.

It is apparent that I don't think of what needs thought of when it needs thought of most - i.e., just going down there over my lunch break, picking up a new relay myself for $17 from the dealer, putting it in myself, and KNOWING the results. now I have a wife (who if you recall owns this car) who no longer talks to me as a result of this nonsense. But that's another problem. I don't dwell on any should've's. Too late now. best I've got going for me is to just change out the relay once again monday morning and go from there. provided he hasn't completely removed the fuse/relay center yet. that'd be bad. I think he may have by now, judging by a few things he said in his description of the condition of the fuel pump relay receptacle, even though he said it cannot be opened from underneath.

doggonit. even in my ignorance I need to not get sucked into my wife's anxiety attacks of getting it fixed right away by whoever is first available and just work on it here at home in the carport. with your help via this forum obviously, and my brother's too over the phone. funny, my brother told me he could've fixed it in real short order and cheaper if I'd have just flown him out here from TN.

anyway, feeling for sure between the rock and the hard place at the moment, with the whole weekend to wait for monday to get back to this problem.

it is driving me nuts that the solution is so stinking close to being realized with just jiggling the relay and the car runs fine when contact is made. I almost just want to put a bloom'n piece of duct tape on the relay "permanently" jiggled in the right position of contact and call it good. For Heaven's sakes I know I've let this go for too long now, and foolishly paid for all the repairs "sight unseen", but at this point, since he is willing to eat all labor costs for this from now on, IF the whole fuser/relay center really does need replacing, I'll just fork over the bloody $200 for the new one from the dealer, and be done with it. in theory. darn am I ever feeling like a dog being lead around and teased by a steak inches from my nose but can't get it. like I said, I keep feeling like he can fix it, and not sure why I have put so much faith into him at this point. kindness is nice, but it doesn't make a car run.

As always, your continued insight for me to learn from here is more helpful than I can say.

- Chuck

 

Any idea if a fuse/relay center is teh same for a 2003 Blazer V6 4dr as it is on a 2001 Bravada? I sure hope so, cuz that's what this mechanic ordered. he said he checked with Ressler Chevrolet here in Bozeman, a place I never place any confidence in at all. So I am just looking for reassurance that this replacement center may very well work.

Swart, changing out just the relay is only to burn another relay. the female pins are clearly burnt in the fuse/relay center. given the current winter weather, I'd sure be surprised to see this part coming from Idaho make it in a timely manner. crap.

Hope to hear more info and input here.
Thanks,
Chuck

 

From my experience, even if contacts look brown/discolored, but otherwise intact, a little bit of cleaning and they would perform equally as well as 'unburnt' contacts.

Now if parts of the metal terminal have melted, then you need to change them. In the case of the fuse/relay center, that means changing the whole thing.

As I said earlier, the relay that your 'trusty' mechanic mostlikely put in was probably some offshore knockoff of the original which caused this whole problem in the first place. A relay should never generate that much heat to not only burn itself up, but also affect the surrounding materials. They typically just stop working. That was an internal short in the relay due to poor design/materials/manufacturing. But hey, other than you being without your vehicle, you aren't directly paying for this stuff are you? If you are, I see no harm in atleast trying what I stated. But I won't suggest it again if you are dead set against it.

If you are comfortable with wiring, you could do something else and much cheaper (rewire to an externally mounted relay), but not everyone is that comfortable.

Now, as far as compatibility, well, that depends on the trim level of the two vehicles. Every Bravada will have the wiring, etc for all available options. So it should work fine in your case.

 

I forget to look at my fp relay before I pulled it and was wandering if there is a wrong way to replace it? Thanks