Dim 9006/HB4 LED Bulbs
#11
07-26-2013, 08:56 PM
1. LED headlights are dim because of a few things. Their lumen output is probably about 500 maximum as opposed to around 1200 for the typical 9006 bulb.
2. LED headlights are generally higher in luminous intensity (millicandela) than luminous flux (lumen). The higher the luminous intensity, the brighter it appears to your eyes due to eye fatigue. It is NOT necessarily brighter. Your eyes have to work harder to "make sense" of what light they're taking in. This is why you can turn your living room light on and stare at the bulb without it hurting too much but you can't look at that tiny LED for longer than a few seconds. The LED is not brighter than your than your typical 60w incandescent light bulb, but it appears to be brighter because of its color temperature. This is why they're perfect for vehicle application. You see that almost all new vehicles come with LED drl strips in some way, shape, or form. They are more likely to catch your attention than regular halogen DRLs.
3. Physics. The reflector bowl on the inside of the headlight has a paraboloidal (it's not quite parabolic in shape) shape across several planes. I'll just talk about the x and y plane for this. Your y plane is vertical and the parabola has its focus right where our 9006 bulb sits. The x plane is vertical and also has its focus where the 9006 bulb sits as well. The light emits in the positive direction of the x axis of each plane we're discussing. The light has to be at the focus for this to work properly. Which brings me to number 4.
4. Do not put HID bulbs in your halogen housings. If you decide to do this, you will be blinding everybody you see. The reason is (again) because of the focal points of the paraboloids. The reason why HID bulbs work so well in projector headlights is that the ellipsoidal shape that is made by the projector has several focal points that are dependent upon another. I won't get into the physics of this, because it gets a little crazy, but the end result is that halogen and HID bulbs have different lengths and will sit further inside the bulb than your the 9006 bulb. Because the light source is not at the focus of the paraboloid, a great deal of light will escape from the housing in all directions and will make it hard for everybody around you to see. This, mixed with the fact that people think HIDs look cooler when they're higher color temperatures (remember our talk about luminous intensity?), makes it downright dangerous to put them in your headlight. You will be a nuisance as well as a safety hazard. On top of that, the optimal color temperature is 4300K because it produces the most lumens with the least millicandela.
So to sum it up...
Don't put LED bulbs in your headlights and expect them to work at night. You are endangering yourself. Just because they look brighter doesn't mean they are brighter. And please, don't put HIDs in your stock housings. Do a retrofit if you want maximum light output.
edit: if i'm wrong about anything that I've said, please correct me with a link disproving me!
2. LED headlights are generally higher in luminous intensity (millicandela) than luminous flux (lumen). The higher the luminous intensity, the brighter it appears to your eyes due to eye fatigue. It is NOT necessarily brighter. Your eyes have to work harder to "make sense" of what light they're taking in. This is why you can turn your living room light on and stare at the bulb without it hurting too much but you can't look at that tiny LED for longer than a few seconds. The LED is not brighter than your than your typical 60w incandescent light bulb, but it appears to be brighter because of its color temperature. This is why they're perfect for vehicle application. You see that almost all new vehicles come with LED drl strips in some way, shape, or form. They are more likely to catch your attention than regular halogen DRLs.
3. Physics. The reflector bowl on the inside of the headlight has a paraboloidal (it's not quite parabolic in shape) shape across several planes. I'll just talk about the x and y plane for this. Your y plane is vertical and the parabola has its focus right where our 9006 bulb sits. The x plane is vertical and also has its focus where the 9006 bulb sits as well. The light emits in the positive direction of the x axis of each plane we're discussing. The light has to be at the focus for this to work properly. Which brings me to number 4.
4. Do not put HID bulbs in your halogen housings. If you decide to do this, you will be blinding everybody you see. The reason is (again) because of the focal points of the paraboloids. The reason why HID bulbs work so well in projector headlights is that the ellipsoidal shape that is made by the projector has several focal points that are dependent upon another. I won't get into the physics of this, because it gets a little crazy, but the end result is that halogen and HID bulbs have different lengths and will sit further inside the bulb than your the 9006 bulb. Because the light source is not at the focus of the paraboloid, a great deal of light will escape from the housing in all directions and will make it hard for everybody around you to see. This, mixed with the fact that people think HIDs look cooler when they're higher color temperatures (remember our talk about luminous intensity?), makes it downright dangerous to put them in your headlight. You will be a nuisance as well as a safety hazard. On top of that, the optimal color temperature is 4300K because it produces the most lumens with the least millicandela.
So to sum it up...
Don't put LED bulbs in your headlights and expect them to work at night. You are endangering yourself. Just because they look brighter doesn't mean they are brighter. And please, don't put HIDs in your stock housings. Do a retrofit if you want maximum light output.
edit: if i'm wrong about anything that I've said, please correct me with a link disproving me!
Then, You trigger the high beams, It pulls the bulb back into the bulb base, bringing the HID to a little slot cut in the shroud below the bulb, allowing light to the lower part of the housing, giving you "high beams"
Really the only acceptable application because of the shroud below the bulb.
This can be created with thin sheet metal in any other application where you are putting HID bulbs in halogen housings, It works real well.
Last edited by richphotos; 07-26-2013 at 09:00 PM.
#12
07-27-2013, 03:33 AM
Rich, as someone that has had both hid projectors and hid reflectors I must say: there is no comparison. The hids blind people, that's it. You can aim them to be less blinding, but it will never match a stock setup or a good retro. Not to mention that H4 and 9007 bulbs are the absolute worst when it comes to hids in a reflector housing due to the fact that they have to mimic a dual filament light source with just a single arc chamber.
Please read through this thread on HIDP that goes into great detail as to why hids in pnp configurations are far from acceptable.
I'm not trying to start a war (as always happens with this topic) but I feel as though we need more knowledge on the subject around here.
Please read through this thread on HIDP that goes into great detail as to why hids in pnp configurations are far from acceptable.
I'm not trying to start a war (as always happens with this topic) but I feel as though we need more knowledge on the subject around here.
#13
07-27-2013, 08:11 AM
.. well, I don't know if that is the solution. What about all newer vehicles with stock LED driving lights and such, they are gorgeously bright and beautiful .. ive seen LED's at thier full potential so why would i throw away mine?
A friend of mine just installed some interior ones in his Fiero and its light up like sunlight in there, my interior LED's are dim aswell so should i just throw those away too? Come on lol
A friend of mine just installed some interior ones in his Fiero and its light up like sunlight in there, my interior LED's are dim aswell so should i just throw those away too? Come on lol
New cars dont use led headlights, maybe running lights but not actual lights responsible to see. I've seen LED fog lights but when on the driver can see great but anyone approaching the driver would be blind. I saw these headlights on ebay and kinda laughed, it had 1 forward faceing LED. All the experimenting i've had proves LED's are very directional with their light, the other 4-8 leds will just make your headlight housing look bright.
#14
07-27-2013, 08:29 AM
Rich, as someone that has had both hid projectors and hid reflectors I must say: there is no comparison. The hids blind people, that's it. You can aim them to be less blinding, but it will never match a stock setup or a good retro. Not to mention that H4 and 9007 bulbs are the absolute worst when it comes to hids in a reflector housing due to the fact that they have to mimic a dual filament light source with just a single arc chamber.
Please read through this thread on HIDP that goes into great detail as to why hids in pnp configurations are far from acceptable.
I'm not trying to start a war (as always happens with this topic) but I feel as though we need more knowledge on the subject around here.
Please read through this thread on HIDP that goes into great detail as to why hids in pnp configurations are far from acceptable.
I'm not trying to start a war (as always happens with this topic) but I feel as though we need more knowledge on the subject around here.
There is a 9007
here is the h4. The shield makes a huge huge difference when it comes to blinding oncoming drivers. It only shines on the upper part of the housing which projects it to the road instead of in oncoming drivers eyes.
Its obvious that you will get better light output when you put an HID into a HID projector. but at least with the h4, you have a little more direction on where the light goes. In the e-code housing, I have a surprisingly sharp cutoff, nothing like a projector. but its not like the idiots that throw them into civics, and the whole housing is being lit up.
Last edited by richphotos; 07-27-2013 at 08:32 AM.
#15
07-27-2013, 08:30 AM
New cars dont use led headlights, maybe running lights but not actual lights responsible to see. I've seen LED fog lights but when on the driver can see great but anyone approaching the driver would be blind. I saw these headlights on ebay and kinda laughed, it had 1 forward faceing LED. All the experimenting i've had proves LED's are very directional with their light, the other 4-8 leds will just make your headlight housing look bright.
#16
07-27-2013, 05:19 PM
That is not a High / low functionallity 9007. And aside from that, H4 bulbs utilize the housing very differently from a 9007.
An H4 only utilizes the top portion of the reflector for the low beam, and the bottom portion is reserved for the high beam. That is why in the stock halogen bulb there is a little shield under the low beam filament, and thus is the reason for the shield on the hid version.
In the 9007 there is no shield, because the low beam uses the entire reflector. Then the high beam filament is shifted slightly back and down to raise and narrow the beam for the highs. This is why 9007 hids don't have shields.
The fact that one has a shield and one does not doesn't mean one is better.
Of course I am not saying that every hid in every housing is complete garbage. There are some that are only slightly annoying. But every hid bulb tested by the DOT in every housing they tested FAILED in where the light was supposed to be, and where it was not supposed to be.
An H4 only utilizes the top portion of the reflector for the low beam, and the bottom portion is reserved for the high beam. That is why in the stock halogen bulb there is a little shield under the low beam filament, and thus is the reason for the shield on the hid version.
In the 9007 there is no shield, because the low beam uses the entire reflector. Then the high beam filament is shifted slightly back and down to raise and narrow the beam for the highs. This is why 9007 hids don't have shields.
The fact that one has a shield and one does not doesn't mean one is better.
Of course I am not saying that every hid in every housing is complete garbage. There are some that are only slightly annoying. But every hid bulb tested by the DOT in every housing they tested FAILED in where the light was supposed to be, and where it was not supposed to be.
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