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MPFI Upgrade with or without lower intake gasket replacement

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  #61  
Old 12-27-2018 | 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Doubledown
I am able to connect and save the PID file. I can then follow the steps to load the save PID file but when I connect to the actual blue tooth it forces me down that same path to either load the PID or choose the device. I can go to Diagnostics> Active Test> Air Pump Solenoid or Air Solenoid and when I press on it pauses for a moment before saying "invalid/no data" in a small bubble at the bottom.
So first choose the device and actually connect and be able to display RPM or temp, etc in default gauges before going into diagnostics. There's a whole extended sequence of keystrokes to get Car Gauge Pro up and running. For those that are following this, we have switched from Torque Pro and are now talking about Car Gauge Pro.

Also note that in Car Gauge Pro you can display a table of easily chosen PIDs from within diagnostics without having to make gauges to display them. Try the IAC position PID. But you have to be fully connected to get at them in Diagnostics. To make a gauge you only have to open the PID file that your made.

I predict you're going to get hooked on these little Android apps!! But there is a steep learning curve.
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 12-27-2018 at 06:00 PM.
  #62  
Old 12-27-2018 | 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMyer
OK - no problem with fuel trim (or O2 sensors). Is controlling - meeting desired A/F ratio - and fuel trim is within acceptable parameters (+/- 10). Is adding 2-3% to injector pulsewidth at idle, but that is OK. No need to replace injector spider is indicated by what you posted. Do you have any misfire or performance complaints. What is the idle speed in drive? I think we are nearing the end unless you have an intermittent.
perhaps the new O2s took car of that because those werent moving at all on those graphs before.
it definitely has a noticable stumble / miss at idle and low rpm. I just did the cap and rotor a couple days ago but still havent gotten to the wires or plugs I have waiting. But aside from that low rom stumble I really have reference to any other performance issue as thia truck is new to me and came with these issues so not to sure hownit should feel running well. It is by no means a speed daemon but I dont rev it out at all 2k-2500k at moat for acceleration for now. The MPG is my only "performance " issue as it falls well short of what the forums pole says people are getting for similar stock trucks and driving type. 90% of what I have been driving is freeway and it maybe gets 13mpg. Regarding the miss the only thing I have been able to find is in the 06 code and it will not go away regardless of clearing. Attached. I am working in the truck as we speak, ran direct power to the air pump and it works fine so tracking back the fuses and relays before I work on running the test in car gauge. I will have to report back on the drive idle though as I recall its about 650. However, if you recall i manually dropped the idle using the screw on the throttle plate so that i could clear that high idle check engine light and actually be able to do the coast down to 20 portion of the drive cycle.

 
  #63  
Old 12-27-2018 | 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Doubledown
perhaps the new O2s took car of that because those werent moving at all on those graphs before.
it definitely has a noticable stumble / miss at idle and low rpm. I just did the cap and rotor a couple days ago but still havent gotten to the wires or plugs I have waiting. But aside from that low rom stumble I really have reference to any other performance issue as thia truck is new to me and came with these issues so not to sure hownit should feel running well. It is by no means a speed daemon but I dont rev it out at all 2k-2500k at moat for acceleration for now. The MPG is my only "performance " issue as it falls well short of what the forums pole says people are getting for similar stock trucks and driving type. 90% of what I have been driving is freeway and it maybe gets 13mpg. Regarding the miss the only thing I have been able to find is in the 06 code and it will not go away regardless of clearing. Attached. I am working in the truck as we speak, ran direct power to the air pump and it works fine so tracking back the fuses and relays before I work on running the test in car gauge. I will have to report back on the drive idle though as I recall its about 650. However, if you recall i manually dropped the idle using the screw on the throttle plate so that i could clear that high idle check engine light and actually be able to do the coast down to 20 portion of the drive cycle.
First thing for the misfire is to check Cam Sensor Retard using Car Gauge Pro. Use the CMP Retard** PID (double asterick). Should be 0 +/- 2 degrees. Please report back.

p.s I'm not sure what Torque Pro is actually reporting there (granted I'm not fully versed in Torque Pro), but I can say that 06 is not an OBD2 code - and that all 06 functions in your screen capture seem to be OK. Looks like the switch time is same thing as the o2 sensor cycle time I wanted you to display. Yes, old o2 sensors cycle more slowly so they may have done some good if this was a problem before. You should have three sensors Bank 1 sensor 1, Bank 2 sensor 1, and Bank 1 sensor 2 (this one is post cat). Maybe CA has different number of O2 sensors, but that is what I have.

I get 14 mpg combined MPG in daily driving. 17 max on Freeway at 70 MPH.
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 12-27-2018 at 09:00 PM.
  #64  
Old 12-27-2018 | 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMyer
First thing for the misfire is to check Cam Sensor Retard using Car Gauge Pro. Use the CMP Retard** PID (double asterick). Should be 0 +/- 2 degrees. Please report back.

p.s I'm not sure what Torque Pro is actually reporting there (granted I'm not fully versed in Torque Pro), but I can say that 06 is not an OBD2 code - and that all 06 functions in your screen capture seem to be OK. Looks like the switch time is same thing as the o2 sensor cycle time I wanted you to display. Yes, old o2 sensors cycle more slowly so they may have done some good if this was a problem before. You should have three sensors Bank 1 sensor 1, Bank 2 sensor 1, and Bank 1 sensor 2 (this one is post cat). Maybe CA has different number of O2 sensors, but that is what I have.

I get 14 mpg combined MPG in daily driving. 17 max on Freeway at 70 MPH.
CA has the same 1 drivers down tube, 1 passenger just before the cat down tube, and the one behind the cat.
OK so I still am not getting Car Gauge setup right because it is not retaining my dash panel or PIDs, however if I did it right enough to get the CMP Retard ** on the dash panel. When I started it up cold, after several hours of sitting it was at -4 to -4.3.. After the 2.5 minute warm up I did about 30 miles home and most of the time it was still -4 or more.. sometimes dropped to mid -2's or throughout the -3s but mostly stayed -4 or more.
Is this a cam position sensor I need to replace or...?
I checked the idle in drive after that longer drive and it was bounces around 580rpm within 10 revs +/- .

I suppose I am not doing as bad on the MPG as I thought though still with such a high percent on freeway I was hoping for at least that 17 you were getting.

Still can't figure the air pump out. Power direct to the pump it fires right up, direct power through the cable from the relay down worked fine, tested the relay continuity and powered it as well and it is working. Tested the 30maxi and replaced the 10amp just to be sure. I still don't hear it kick on, starting cold and still no secondary air test completion. Miracle will be if it does it tomorrow morning so i can get it into smog.

 
  #65  
Old 12-28-2018 | 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Doubledown
CA has the same 1 drivers down tube, 1 passenger just before the cat down tube, and the one behind the cat.
OK so I still am not getting Car Gauge setup right because it is not retaining my dash panel or PIDs, however if I did it right enough to get the CMP Retard ** on the dash panel. When I started it up cold, after several hours of sitting it was at -4 to -4.3.. After the 2.5 minute warm up I did about 30 miles home and most of the time it was still -4 or more.. sometimes dropped to mid -2's or throughout the -3s but mostly stayed -4 or more.
Is this a cam position sensor I need to replace or...?
I checked the idle in drive after that longer drive and it was bounces around 580rpm within 10 revs +/- .

I suppose I am not doing as bad on the MPG as I thought though still with such a high percent on freeway I was hoping for at least that 17 you were getting.

Still can't figure the air pump out. Power direct to the pump it fires right up, direct power through the cable from the relay down worked fine, tested the relay continuity and powered it as well and it is working. Tested the 30maxi and replaced the 10amp just to be sure. I still don't hear it kick on, starting cold and still no secondary air test completion. Miracle will be if it does it tomorrow morning so i can get it into smog.
With Car Gauge Pro you need to scan for the PIDs each time, unless you have the PID file to pull in. I'm sure its just a question of the choices you are making when connecting. But it seems to be working.

580 rpm in drive is just right in my experience. I cringe a bit that you have adjusted the idle with the throttle stop, but if it works it works. You can play with the IAC later.

Your cam sensor retard is not horrible, but you may get some performance improvement by setting to zero. Cam sensor itself is working fine. In this system the ignition timing is determined solely by the crank sensor and the PCM. Doesn't matter how or where the distributor is turned and indeed the distributor hold down is designed to not allow adjustment. However, if the distributor rotor is not pointing exactly towards the terminal as originally designed (due to distributor gear or timing chain wear) a misfire can occur. The Cam Sensor is mounted inside the distributor and tells the PCM which cylinder is firing (for misfire detection and sequential fuel injection purposes). It is able to measure the camshaft position relative to the crankshaft quite accurately. For a 4 degree change you need to remove the hold down clamp and either elongate the bolt hole by grinding to allow just a little rotation - or replace the clamp with one from a older small block Chevy engine. Then watch the cam sensor retard as you adjust the distributor, snapping throttle to 2000 and back between adjustments.

Good the the air pump is in working condition. Like I said before the secondary air system seems to have a mind of its own as to when it runs its test. I've never figured out how to force it to complete without the Tech 2, and I've never hear it run all on its own on startup (of course I wasn't really listening by then). But as I understand it the Tech2 will do exactly what you need to happen. Maybe that still remains an option? Can you get a GM dealer to do the emissions testing after forcing the test, or are your emissions testing station only run by the state?
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 12-28-2018 at 10:25 AM.
  #66  
Old 12-28-2018 | 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LesMyer
With Car Gauge Pro you need to scan for the PIDs each time, unless you have the PID file to pull in. I'm sure its just a question of the choices you are making when connecting. But it seems to be working.

580 rpm in drive is just right in my experience. I cringe a bit that you have adjusted the idle with the throttle stop, but if it works it works. You can play with the IAC later.

Your cam sensor retard is not horrible, but you may get some performance improvement by setting to zero. Cam sensor itself is working fine. In this system the ignition timing is determined solely by the crank sensor and the PCM. Doesn't matter how or where the distributor is turned and indeed the distributor hold down is designed to not allow adjustment. However, if the distributor rotor is not pointing exactly towards the terminal as originally designed (due to distributor gear or timing chain wear) a misfire can occur. The Cam Sensor is mounted inside the distributor and tells the PCM which cylinder is firing (for misfire detection and sequential fuel injection purposes). It is able to measure the camshaft position relative to the crankshaft quite accurately. For a 4 degree change you need to remove the hold down clamp and either elongate the bolt hole by grinding to allow just a little rotation - or replace the clamp with one from a older small block Chevy engine. Then watch the cam sensor retard as you adjust the distributor, snapping throttle to 2000 and back between adjustments.

Good the the air pump is in working condition. Like I said before the secondary air system seems to have a mind of its own as to when it runs its test. I've never figured out how to force it to complete without the Tech 2, and I've never hear it run all on its own on startup (of course I wasn't really listening by then). But as I understand it the Tech2 will do exactly what you need to happen. Maybe that still remains an option? Can you get a GM dealer to do the emissions testing after forcing the test, or are your emissions testing station only run by the state?
As along as I got what I need from the app the cost was worth it and I can work out the personalization later. The idle does seem to be in a good spot, but it is rough and has that stumble. I know it wasnt the correct way to do it but I was really trying to clear these tests by today and that was the only way I was able to clear that high idle code and also allow the truck to coast. That being said is there a correct procedure for resetting that base idle to spec and then let the IAC do its job? Not sure why it wasn't doing it after the new one was installed but I would like to put everything back to factory if I can eventually pass smog.
I can round out the mounting hole on the cam retainer, which side will I need to round out when needing to add those 4 degrees. Not familiar with the chevy distributor rotation direction.
I suppose I can check with the dealership though my guess is for them to force the test it would cost more than a new smog test. They would have to do it today in time for me to make the smog shop before closing as well, so I think I will give it some cold starts over the next couple weeks and just live with the fact I wasted money on a smog inspection and cross my fingers that secondary test passes before the end of the month. Emission stations here are private but are regulated and inspected by our Bureau of Automotive Repairs, and they have really cracked down. Way back in highschool we used to be able to slip the tech a $20 and they would pass our grossly illegally modded cars and trucks just using a different car on the sniffer. Now its all OBDII, and instant results to the DMV so those old days are gone haha.
 
  #67  
Old 12-28-2018 | 10:49 AM
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Distributor rotation is clockwise. So if your cam sensor retard is negative, I believe the distributor needs turned counter-clockwise to make it more positive.

I would imagine that once the IAC is verified to be working properly, then you could just display IAC position and set it to a known good value in drive (such as the IAC position shown on my gauge in the first screen captures that I posted)

Shame you missed needing to have the secondary air readiness passing by 1 model year.
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/ca...readiness.html

Good luck and best wishes.

ps. Check out the misfire counters in both Torque Pro and Car Gauge Pro. I like to make gauges so I can watch each cylinder individually, all at the same time. Remember a few misfires here and there are normal - just nothing steady or excessive on a particular cylinder.

Also in Car Gauge Pro check out connect/GM/Scanallfaults/pending codes - this will give you codes that are recognized but have not yet turned on the SES light (ones that require more than one failure to turn SES light on)
Also in Car Gauge Pro check out connect/GM/Scanallfaluts/app default - this gives you all codes for all systems (PCM, BCM, SIR, TCCM, ABS, etc).
Don't hit clear all codes or you will wipe out all your readiness monitors.

Have fun
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 12-28-2018 at 11:05 AM.
  #68  
Old 01-04-2019 | 12:52 PM
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Well still no love from the secondary air system test. I have been getting in 2 cold starts a day am and pm and still nothing. I was doing the drive cycles after the start just in case the computer wanted to see that after the cold start to trigger though I had a tire blow out on me so i have since moved to figuring out what I am going to do for tire and rim sizes so I can feel safe driving again as the tires did have some weathering which is where this one blew out.
I have the Zone body lift and the shackles for the shackle+tbar crank I also picked up some wheel adapters to be able to mount my jeep 33s on the jimmy though I am reading that may not work with that lift without the fender trimming even for street use temporarily. But I digress again, I now how 24 days to get smog done before my temporary moving permit expires and I cannot get a new one. My free retest was over on 12/28 so I will have to pay for another smog when/if I can get this test to pass.
I called local GM dealers' service departments and they all want $120+ to force run the secondary air test with their scanners. I posted a local craig's list ad to see if someone with a tech 2 wanted to make a few quick bucks to force the test for me but no takers so far.
All I can do at this point, until I figure out the tire situation is to do my 2 cold start and idles a day. I cannot find any further information on the particular test e.g. if it runs or not on every cold start, if the ecm counts every start and needs a certain amount before it passes or if maybe its not even a "test" that is ran but more collecting start information.
Regarding the last one i was thinking perhaps I could could hard wire the pump to run, turn it on and start the car cold to give the ecm the readings it needs from the O2 sensors unless it truly does run a test that the ecm has to initiate the pump itself.
Still struggling, any further info on the tests or other tricks are welcome.
 
  #69  
Old 01-04-2019 | 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Doubledown
Well still no love from the secondary air system test. I have been getting in 2 cold starts a day am and pm and still nothing. I was doing the drive cycles after the start just in case the computer wanted to see that after the cold start to trigger though I had a tire blow out on me so i have since moved to figuring out what I am going to do for tire and rim sizes so I can feel safe driving again as the tires did have some weathering which is where this one blew out.
I have the Zone body lift and the shackles for the shackle+tbar crank I also picked up some wheel adapters to be able to mount my jeep 33s on the jimmy though I am reading that may not work with that lift without the fender trimming even for street use temporarily. But I digress again, I now how 24 days to get smog done before my temporary moving permit expires and I cannot get a new one. My free retest was over on 12/28 so I will have to pay for another smog when/if I can get this test to pass.
I called local GM dealers' service departments and they all want $120+ to force run the secondary air test with their scanners. I posted a local craig's list ad to see if someone with a tech 2 wanted to make a few quick bucks to force the test for me but no takers so far.
....
You know, you might just have to pay the $120 at the dealer. It is definitely not the cheap way to go but from what you wrote, time, not money, might have become your most valuable resource. Even if not conclusive, the cost of $120 might still be much less expensive than having to replace your rig.
 
  #70  
Old 01-04-2019 | 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by christine_208
You know, you might just have to pay the $120 at the dealer. It is definitely not the cheap way to go but from what you wrote, time, not money, might have become your most valuable resource. Even if not conclusive, the cost of $120 might still be much less expensive than having to replace your rig.
I may, I just made a tire wheel post to hopefully get the info I need to pick some tires so i can drive it around trying to get the drive cycles in. Really hoping it just goes ready, as it had a few weeks back while others were still not ready oddly enough. I guess I will have to wait till about the end of the month to see if it goes ready on its own then decide if I drop the money to force it then smog it before the permit expires or keep trying on my own and then maybe drive the truck just to the smog shop with expired "registration".
 



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