Hello! New member/long-time lurker. I had a '97 4dr LS for about 9 years and recently traded for an '01 ZR2. First thing I decided to do was replace the stereo/speakers but I think I jumped the gun a little. After installing a new Pioneer HU, I replaced the 6.5s in the front doors and the dash tweeters with 4x6s. I did this without first considering a component speaker set.

As it is now, I'm a little disappointed. With sound quality as the priority, I'm considering swapping these for a component set powered by an external amp. I've read many threads here on this topic and most seem to recommend components. I am aware of the built-in crossovers/bass-blockers and wondering if I should have them installed professionally or if wiring these would be more trouble than they're worth (My old '97 was plagued with electrical issues it's whole life).

I understand this has all been covered before but any discussion/recommendations would be much appreciated!

 

Welcome to the Forum!! Professional installation is almost an oxymoron anymore. Most shops I visit don't have the most reliable and knowledgeable people doing the work. It's really not that hard to install this stuff yourself, especially if you follow the generally accepted good installation practices.

To run a component set you'll be better off running your own new wires to the mids and tweeters, but the factory bass blocker on the tweeter plate is on the wires that unplug with the tweeter so it wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Whether you went with a component set or not I would highly suggest replacing the flimsy factory blue plastic baffles on the doors with something more substantial made from MDF or Birch plywood. It will give the speaker a strong surface to mount to which helps clean up the output and not lose so much in the surrounding structure. That helps with the bass/mid-bass response a great deal. Another thing to do is to not mount the tweeters right away. Use some double sided tape or something to that effect to temporarily mount them in different locations. Try any logical place to put them and find which one sounds best for those tweeters, in that vehicle, to your ears. Then just permanently mount them in that location. Every speaker, vehicle, and person has it's own properties and preferences and finding the happy medium will yield you the best results.

Another thing to consider is sound deadening. A lot of people would consider it a superfluous item, but it helps in so many ways that anyone who's never experienced the difference can't imagine. You should consider spending a bit on that as well, it will be well worth it in the long run.

What kind of budget are you looking at staying in for the amp and components? The market is flooded with equipment that fits in all sorts of price ranges that varies widely in quality, but if you can give a budget to stay within I can help find you the best bang for your buck.

 

Thanks for the reply! The only reason I would have a shop do it would be due to pure laziness on my part. But, "if you want it done right, do it yourself."

I guess i'm mainly wondering how they would compare to the 3-way 6.5s and the 4x6s I currently have and if it would be worth swapping them out. I suppose this just depends on the ear. I'm looking at spending a couple hundred but that's negotiable. New wires would definitely have to be ran. I could be wrong but it seems that this part would be the biggest pain along with finding a good place to mount the XOs and the amp. I'm thinking a 4ch. amp for front components/6x9s and a monoblock for subs that will come later. I'm also considering sound dampening possibilities.

 

You're welcome. I can understand the laziness part, it truly is a fair amount of work to run all the wires, fabricate baffles, find and utilize mounting locations, etc. If you were local I'd show you that it would be worth swapping out, lol. I think anyone who heard the system in my Jimmy would quickly be tossing their coaxial 6.5's and 4x6's and going for a similar setup. While I've definitely got more than a couple hundred in mine a person wouldn't need to spend as much to get very similar results.

You're right, it does depend on the ear. It also depends on the drive, or the personal need to get to the results you want. If you want it to sound like you're sitting in the recording booth as the band is laying the track down, it's going to be considerably more costly and involved than just better than factory. Pretty much everyone falls somewhere in between those two extremes, "Perfection" and "eh whatever". It's not always easy finding a happy medium, but if you strive for it you'll get closer than just doing what's the cheapest and easiest.

The best thing about a budget, is that it can be stretched out over time if you have the patience and exponentially increased. Deciding on exactly what you want to do, doing lots of research on the equipment to get and use, and purchasing each part as you can will greatly increase your chances at reaching the goals you set for the system.

A four channel amp would not be a bad way to go at all, though I wouldn't worry about the 6x9's they skew the imaging and sound stage. Utilizing a fairly powerful four channel amp with the front/first/etc. channels on a set of components and bridging the rear/second/etc. channels on a sub would be the way I would go. Easier wiring, less worry about the electrical, less total cost, and it would do very well in terms of output and SQ.




EDIT: A thread where a guy installed his first set of components and gave his comparison to previous experience with coaxials is right below this one. Post #5 and #10 is his thoughts on the setup. Would likely be some good reading for you and the name of the thread is "Components in the door/dash?".

 

Very helpful thread. I think i'll be going with the components. I would like to push for a sound that is a step above "just better than factory". I enjoyed the system I had in my '97 (which was stolen) mainly because of how the mids and highs blended with and were not over-powered by the subs. It was hastily installed and did not involve any sound dampening/custom baffles yet sounded great for what it was. It consisted of 3-way 6.5s, stock 6x9s, boxed 6x9s in the rear and 2 10in. RE subs of 175W RMS each. I'd like to go above and beyond my old system and might play around with the idea of dynamat/custom speaker housings or even integrating a separate EQ.

My budget can be stretched a little as this will most likely be a spring project for me. I've been looking at Pioneer component systems, but also at other more expensive sets such as Infinity and Cerwin-Vega (all brands I've been impressed with in the past.) What would you recommend? I'm familiar with Alpine but not Cadence. Whatever I get, I will probably re-wire these and mount the XOs somewhere behind the dash like you mentioned. Or possibly under the speaker grilles on the dash if there is enough clearance.

Then there's the question of whether to bi-amp. I could bridge the 6x9s on the sub but I still like the idea of a small 4ch. amp for 6.5s/6x9s and the subs on a separate amp (possibly utilizing a separate power source). Would that be a bad route to go? Perhaps I'm making this more complicated than it should be. I just like throwing ideas around.

EDIT: I just found your post listing good brands.

 

I just installed a set of these in my 00 blazer. Tweeters went to the stock location mid bass to the doors. It took a bit to install them and amp them as well. BUT for the $55 I gave for them it was well worth it. I put them on a OLD rockford fosgate punch 120aII that was laying around as well.

The only reason I didn't do my tweeters in the door panels is because just about everyone I know spun the dash vents in my old grand am. They ain't screwing with my tweeters. But on another note they blend pretty well in the front. I still haven't touched the rear doors yet but I think I'm just gonna shove some 6.5 coaxes back there. Also depending on the power requirements of your sub you could use a 5 ch amp.

 

I haven't decided on subs or an amp yet. I thought about going with 2 higher powered (ie 800w RMS) 10s but judging how my old 175w 10inchers rattled my '97 blazer's rear end to pieces, I probably won't go that powerful without seriously considering some sound deadening. But I'm trying to focus on the mid-ranges/highs first.

With the 4x6s now in my dash, the highs seem tinny/strange sounding and almost annoying which is something I noticed only after removing the stock tweeters. This is prompting me to switch to a better-than-decent component set.

Seems that coaxes are the best way to go for the rears. I'm still debating on whether to power them with the components or separately. I left the stock 6x9s in my old 2 dr (didn't feel like pulling out all that plastic), and wired up an additional set of boxed 6x9s and placed them in back with the subs. Too many sound sources and probably too loud but it was fun and sounded great to my ears at the time.

 

If you think you have to have rears, a basic set of coax's is really all that's required. You really don't want to drive them on the same amplifier channels as the components. While there's several reasons for that the simplest reason for it is simply if the coax's have a higher sensitivity than the components, they'll always be louder than the components. There wouldn't be any way to raise or lower the output of one set from the other. In most cases you'd be fine to power the rears off the HU.

You're right though, pulling all that damn plastic just to reach the rear speakers is a royal pain in the ***. I have pictures of all of it out of the back of my Jimmy in my build log from when I was putting the sound deadening in the back. Let me tell you now, if you ever plan on replacing the back speakers, sound deadening the rear, and doing anything else that requires removing those panels that's one job that you should definitely do it all at the same time. You don't want to have to take that out more than once, believe me I know. I had mine out three times, first for replacing the 6x9's when I first got the truck, second for doing the sound deadening, third was running all the wires for the amps and components. It's a bitch.

As for components, the Pioneer, Infinity and Cerwin-Vega options are all ok. The Alpine SPS-610's are really hard to beat for the money, and the Type R's are even nicer. Diamond Audio's D364.5 components can be had for just over $100 if you hunt around and they're pretty nice. Focal's 165A1 Components can be found for under $150. The JBL P660C components can be picked up for about $125 and the GTO608's for $100 or less. The Hertz DSK 165 components can occasionally be found for under $150. The Incriminator Audio I65C components are about $130. Morel Maximo 6 and Polk DB6501's are generally decent as well. They all fall at least close to inline with your budget and personally I'd be afraid to go with anything much less than these sets. The only Pioneers I would consider in your budget range would be the D series like the TS-D1720C's. They're really pretty nice for the money. Those Cadences are supposed to be great for the money, much like the Phoenix Gold RSD's as well. The PG's aren't bad, but definitely not on par with other sets that cost only a few dollars more. I would imagine it's the same story with the Cadence's.

I'm spoiled when it comes to highs. In both my vehicles I'm running sets that retailed for $400-$500 when you could still buy them, but I've been running the cheaper sets like the ones I listed for years prior and I've learned that most sets under $150 are pretty much all the same and are really hard to listen to anymore, lol. Sets in the $150 to $250 get pretty competitive and the good ones will stand much farther out from the not so good ones. Once you get over $250 a person really needs to know about speaker design, driver parameters and such to know that the money you're spending is actually going to a worthwhile product. Anything over that price is better than the cheaper ones, but the problem is that some may only be marginally better, which is why it's good to really know what you're looking at.

For your application, if you want to stay in the <$100 range I wouldn't stray from the Alpine SPS's or the JBL GTO608's. Both those sets can hold their own pretty good. If you're going to look more at $100-$150 the Pioneer D series, Alpine Type R's, JBL P660's, Focal's, Diamonds, and the Hertz are going to excel in most cases. I've had experience with almost all those I listed and they're all worth their salt. They have drawbacks, all speakers do when you're looking at the lower budget sets, but the positives outweigh the negatives pretty well.

As for amps, any decent name amp will do a find job running the components. You'll need to chose a set of speakers before we can really hone in on an amp recommendation. The biggest problem is that once you start to care why, how and what sounds good then it gets a good bit harder to decide on what to buy and what direction to go on all the rest of the aspects. The highs are the most important part and I'm glad to see you wanting to start there.

 

I've been looking at many of the sets you mentioned and I really like The Pioneer D-Series and the Alpine Type-Rs. I found the Pioneers for $104 and the Alpines for $154. Quite the difference in price. The biggest difference I found is in the frequency response. The Pioneers are rated at 30-33000Hz and the Alpines at 65-29000Hz. However, the Alpines appear to be capable of handling almost twice the wattage while having the same sensitivity of 88db. Would the Pioneers noticeably hit that lower range of frequencies? Or would the higher output of the Alpines offset that? I'm not sure which set is the better option (or how relevant/accurate these specs are).

Whichever set I choose, I will probably purchase a matching set of coax 6x9s, which will be a little more sensitive than the components (88db vs 90db). Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you run all four speakers on a 4ch. amp and adjust the levels or even fade slightly to the front to balance the difference in volume? What other drawbacks would there be to amping the 6x9s in this way and thus getting the full potential out of the 6x9s as well? I assume it would have something to do with the effects on imaging and sound stage which are concepts that I'm not sure I fully grasp yet.

Thanks again for your input! Very informative.

 

The Pioneers do indeed cover the lower registers a bit better than the Type R's. However, that realm is typically left for subwoofer duties anyway. My Bravox's can produce bass frequencies down into the 30hz realm with a fair amount of authority, however at greatly reduced power handling. Can't turn it up nearly as loud to play that low, the suspension just isn't made for that on these small drivers. While the Pioneers definitely play lower than the Alpines the Alpines are more realistically spec'd for their size. Midbass frequencies are generally considered to start in about 60hz and that's really all as low as these need to play, especially when you add a sub. I have my Bravox's high passed at 50hz and the EQ cut -3db at 40hz and they still play plenty low enough for me. All but the deepest bass in rap and such is played back and heard with authority while keeping terrific power handling characteristics. Basically, if you want to have the higher power handling and can spare the extra $50 the Type R's will be the better option. If maximum output isn't what you really want, or $50 is too much in the difference the Pioneers will do just fine.

You're right, you can run all four speakers on a four channel amp, each on it's own channel and adjust the gains or fader on the HU to keep the 6x9's in check under the components. When you asked about that in an earlier post it sounded like you were referring to putting both a component and a 6x9 on the same amp channel.

As for the drawbacks of having the 6x9's playing the same output level as the components you again hit the nail on the head. Having them play behind you at the same loudness level as the components will pull the stage and image rearward. Recorded music, even though it's ONLY stereo, captures all the nuances, reflections, reverberations and everything that happens to the sound inside of the space it was recorded in. That includes instrument locations, singer locations, and things like that. In a perfect setup that would be played back in complete faithfulness and sitting there listening you could hear the bass guitar to the far left, the drums in the center and rear, lead guitar far right and front and the singer in front of all them slightly to the left, then hear the band manager cough from the very front of the room (behind the microphone), for example. The height of the singer and all the instruments can also be heard and it would sound exactly like you were sitting there while they played live and the cough would sound as though it came from behind you. It's really there, in every recording, though slightly degraded when it comes to digital sources such as satellite radio, mp3's and ipod's, from the compression but it's there. In a perfect setup you can really make all that out, though it's MUCH MUCH more difficult to do in a vehicle than it is in a house. The moral of that novel is that when you have multiple drivers playing the same signal from drastically different locations it skews those effects that are in the recordings and the stage and image are no longer faithfully placed or reproduced.

That kind of perfection is EXTREMELY difficult to attain, even with a great in house setup. I've demo'd a few SQ competition vehicles that could do it and the results are nothing short of orgasm inducing, lol. Not literally, but they made anything I had at the time and everything I've had since sound like complete ***. The closest I've came so far has been my two most recent builds in my wife's minivan and in my Jimmy. In which I've ditched using the rear speakers in both, gotten HU's that have terrific crossover, EQ and time alignment controls, and have spent hours upon hours dialing things in. I still have a long way to go to get anywhere near what those cars could do in terms of SQ.

That being said, you're probably not going for that kind of perfect SQ. Crisp, clear, full of detail and distortion free up to the loudness level you prefer is most likely the goal you're seeking and in that case these speakers will meet those goals for you with no problems.