added to post above

 

Yes sir, it all started with bad gas. When I put the new fuel pump in i cleaned out the tank. I think I used a mild detergent and did a quick wipe down.

A few days ago i put the gas i removed from the tank that I had purchased day before it stopped. Fuel quality has been a huge learning curve and by learning curve i mean an expensive lesson on preventative maintenance.

 

Maybe you should try another dose of fresh fuel down its throat and see if it starts. And leave it run a while if it starts.

 

I have done the first part of the test.

Pull fp relay, crank 30 sec, add fresh fuel, crank

Result was no start.

Im now on second part with 2 more plugs to pull

Plugs 2, 4 were black and 6 was black and slighty wet, dried quick

To be clear, after i crank 30 sec and replace plugs coil wire with fp relay removed, i should put fp relay back as I did last night and let it run for awhile?

When I replaced the coolant temp sensor some coolant came out, maybe a quart or so. The reservoir is half full now. Should I add water to the system and I understand that I need to bleed the air out with a special burping funnel that I don't have.

Or just be ever vigilant watching the gauge?

Just being cautious.


No sir Walleye I apologize please disregard this reply i thought I was replying to Les. At this moment im following his instructions only.

I should learn to be more aware of the posts im reading and maybe how to delete posts when im not. Thank you very much for your input though.

 

After you crank 30 sec with the plugs out, put the dried plugs back in, enable the coil, and put the fresh gas down the throttle body. Leave the FP relay out and see if it starts. Then report. Do not put the relay back in either way at this point unless you like to pull spark plugs and dry them out again. If it starts it definitely confirms fuel system or fuel quality issue and I will give further test instructions from there. If it starts, go ahead and obtain a fuel pressure tester with a bleed valve that will screw onto the fitting by the distributor and have it ready but don't do anything with it yet.

 

Here's a FYI. Don't trust that the email that gets sent to you has all of my post. I have a habit of doing a lot of editing after the initial post. Always go to the actual thread please. Did you see all of post 20?

 

Yes sir, i followed all your instructions. Here's a summary...

After trying the first part of the test

Pull fp relay, crank 30 sec, add fuel then crank with a no start outcome

I pulled all plugs but #3.... (I sprayed plugs with carb cleaner and wire brushed removing carbon) Findings were as follows

#1 plug no issues
#2 plug black, dry
#3 plug N/A
#4 plug black, dry
#5 plug wet, dries in a couple minutes
#6 plug black, wet, dries quick

I then pulled coil wire and cranked 30 sec
I reinstalled plugs after rechecking gap and torqued to 11 ft/lbs
I put coil wire back on, added gas and attempted to start vehicle leaving fuel relay out. The result was a crank no start

I replied to the other gentleman assuming that it was you and you had changed your mind. No sir im not trying to take multiple conflicting paths to success. I will be more aware in the future.

I remembered a mod i had made to the bottom of the butterfly. I removed the small shielding piece that was riveted underneath but did not remove the rivets exposing holes. Im not sure if that factors in here.

I can go back and check for spark again at coil and plugs. After finding spark ill try the test again.

Would the carb cleaner affect the plugs ability to fire? That is the only thing I did different.

​​​

 

Agree - check for spark again. Does it have spark at the coil outlet? Then is it making it through the distributor to the plug after the second ear broke and cap came off completely in post 19 (how I understood it). If not through the distributor, then probably need to get the new distributor before going further.

I don't see where that throttle body mod would cause a no-start.

As long as you let the plugs dry after spraying them with carb cleaner, then they should not be affected.

Just don't plug that relay back in.

 

I checked spark at coil wire on distributor side, #2 cyl at plug boot and #1 cyl at plug boot.
All points had spark

I removd all but #3 plug... Findings
#1 plug was fine
#2 black and wet
#3 N/A
#4 black and wet
#5 black and wet
#6 black and wet

Im not sure because it was 20 degrees colder that they were nearly all wet but they seemed a bit more damp and dried slower

Cranked for 30s

​​​​​​After cleaning with wire brush and drying with cloth i torqued all plugs to 11ft/lbs put the coil wire back leaving fp relay out, then charged the battery.

Battery charged i filled beer can 1/4 with fresh gas replaced air tube and attempted to start vehicle. It popped off twice and that was it.

Im wondering about the dampness of the plugs. If I might have another chance to recreate the results from the other night after the compression test.

I have a new set of bosch plugs i bought then decided to get AC Delco. Ill try it with the bosch plugs.

Unless that is pointless and you have a different plan of attack.

 

I really feel that you may have bad fuel with a lot of water in it, and when you plugged that relay in and ran it the injectors sprayed a bunch down into the intake. But I hesitate to move on to testing/blaming fuel or fuel system until we can get the engine to reliably start on the fresh gasoline using the disable relay and pour gas down the throttle body method. If we can't get it to start, we might have to wait for the new distributor to eliminate that as a possibility. If we move on now, we may go down the wrong diagnostic path.

In the meantime you could try pouring less gasoline, or cranking longer with throttle to the floor when starting. Any time those plugs get thoroughly wet with liquid, the engine is flooded. If the fuel has a lot of water in it, the spark plug gets effectively shorted out when wet. You could also try to see if it will run on shots of "highly flammable" carb cleaner down the throttle body (make sure carb cleaner says highly flammable).

Later on, if it reliably starts on the fresh gas - then we will install the fuel pressure tester and the relay but we won't crank the engine to deliver any of the old fuel. First we will make sure it has the initial 2-second fuel pump pulse to around 60 psi with KOEO and that it holds above 50psi for a few minutes. If that is OK - then the FP regulator is working and it's not leaking fuel internally into the intake, or back into the fuel pump. Then we jumper the relay connector and take about a pint sample of gasoline from the side tap on the fuel pressure gauge.

To test the gas for water, take a clear bottle and fill 1/2 with water. Mark the level with a sharpie. Now add approximately the same amount of fuel. If the water layer increases above the line, that is how much water was in your gasoline sample.

But right now your testing is inconclusive but hopeful.

Nothing wrong with Bosch plugs. It's not a pointless thing to change them and try a fresh set. And it will start on 5 of 6 if you want to skip #3 for now. If you can get it to start, see if it will start multiple times the same way. Then we could move on.