switching to synthetic
#11
11-14-2006, 02:03 PM
RE: switching to synthetic
Current petro oil is much superior to oil formulations even 20 years ago. It's great oil.
Synthetic is superior in terms of resistance to temperature and mechanical breakdown, wicks into bearings better, and is extremely detergent. There's a good reason it's required on BMWs and Corvettes, as well as some other cars.
I've run synthetic in all my cars since 1977, as long as they burn less than 1 quart per 1000 miles. It's worth it. However, I run a lot of turbo cars, and IMO you're nuts if you do NOT run only synthetic in turbo motors.
What you've heard about drying oil seals is not correct. Early synthetics (around 1950) lacked some additives which made the oil seals swell in the same way that petro oil does. This causes done leakage with early synth formulations, but that was corrected decades ago. Synth is also extremely detergent, and wicks through small openings. If you have marginal gaskets that are held together with dirt, it may well remove the dirt and a small leak may result. However, with 49K miles on the Blazer, this should be no issue at all. I'ave changed over a number of motors with 100K miles or more on them.
My advice: if you want to run synth, you will increase your insurance against motor damage if you lose oil pressure or blow a radiator hose and overheat. Run a quart of Gunk or other engine cleaner through the motor (as per label directions), change oil and filter with synthetic, and go forth.
Synthetic is superior in terms of resistance to temperature and mechanical breakdown, wicks into bearings better, and is extremely detergent. There's a good reason it's required on BMWs and Corvettes, as well as some other cars.
I've run synthetic in all my cars since 1977, as long as they burn less than 1 quart per 1000 miles. It's worth it. However, I run a lot of turbo cars, and IMO you're nuts if you do NOT run only synthetic in turbo motors.
What you've heard about drying oil seals is not correct. Early synthetics (around 1950) lacked some additives which made the oil seals swell in the same way that petro oil does. This causes done leakage with early synth formulations, but that was corrected decades ago. Synth is also extremely detergent, and wicks through small openings. If you have marginal gaskets that are held together with dirt, it may well remove the dirt and a small leak may result. However, with 49K miles on the Blazer, this should be no issue at all. I'ave changed over a number of motors with 100K miles or more on them.
My advice: if you want to run synth, you will increase your insurance against motor damage if you lose oil pressure or blow a radiator hose and overheat. Run a quart of Gunk or other engine cleaner through the motor (as per label directions), change oil and filter with synthetic, and go forth.
#12
11-14-2006, 02:58 PM
RE: switching to synthetic
On my trasher motors (toys ect.) I run whatever. Mostly Mobil 1
But on my buildups and keepers I run AMSOIL (does not thicken below freezing, less break down, longer fluid life, ect...)
Kind of like not having to change my oil for 25k or 2 yrs (which ever comes first) or the 7500 mile.
What sold me on the stuff was: Had a 76 Torino GT w/ BB 400. Someone thought it would be cute to loosen my oil plug, well needless to say the oil light did not light up when she got empty. Ran if for about hundred miles this way before I was like, "My motor is not right". So when I checked it all out, only one spun rod bearing. Had the oil in for 8,000 miles. So it saved me a motor.
Not trying to say it will do this for everyone. Mine might had just been luck. But it sold me on the stuff. From that day on I have seen: better MPG, Less repairs (gaskets and stuff), better performance, ect. (no not going to go into a sales pitch)
I mean heck if the millitary says its the only stuff they use in their jets/motors/equiptment, its got to say something for the stuff [8D]
Oh and its kind of nice being able to run the 20-50 for the extra protection without it bogging down the motor due to the heavy weight. The 20-50 is like running 5w-10 but with the added protection.
But on my buildups and keepers I run AMSOIL (does not thicken below freezing, less break down, longer fluid life, ect...)
Kind of like not having to change my oil for 25k or 2 yrs (which ever comes first) or the 7500 mile.
What sold me on the stuff was: Had a 76 Torino GT w/ BB 400. Someone thought it would be cute to loosen my oil plug, well needless to say the oil light did not light up when she got empty. Ran if for about hundred miles this way before I was like, "My motor is not right". So when I checked it all out, only one spun rod bearing. Had the oil in for 8,000 miles. So it saved me a motor.
Not trying to say it will do this for everyone. Mine might had just been luck. But it sold me on the stuff. From that day on I have seen: better MPG, Less repairs (gaskets and stuff), better performance, ect. (no not going to go into a sales pitch)
I mean heck if the millitary says its the only stuff they use in their jets/motors/equiptment, its got to say something for the stuff [8D]
Oh and its kind of nice being able to run the 20-50 for the extra protection without it bogging down the motor due to the heavy weight. The 20-50 is like running 5w-10 but with the added protection.
#13
11-14-2006, 11:01 PM
RE: switching to synthetic
But we arent talking about jets and turbo powered vehicles... were talking about a 5.3L silverado I believe... IMO..... it is not worth the extra money.... I have had vehicles run 300,000 miles with penzoil 10w-30..... I had a friend (he passed away on mothers day this year... 19 years old.....
) who blew 2 motors in a turboed Evo 8..... mechanic said it was due to the synthetic oil breaking down...... a sheer matter of owner preference...... if you wanna buy it then more power to you... on a silverado though, its not gonna make any difference... I'm not trying to argue here... i'm just saying its a 327 v8.... not a high end turbo jet engine..... synthetic wont make any difference....... just change it every 3,000 and it will last you forever. . . just think about the vehicles before synthetic oils... they ran just fine without it... yours will too...
) who blew 2 motors in a turboed Evo 8..... mechanic said it was due to the synthetic oil breaking down...... a sheer matter of owner preference...... if you wanna buy it then more power to you... on a silverado though, its not gonna make any difference... I'm not trying to argue here... i'm just saying its a 327 v8.... not a high end turbo jet engine..... synthetic wont make any difference....... just change it every 3,000 and it will last you forever. . . just think about the vehicles before synthetic oils... they ran just fine without it... yours will too...
#14
11-15-2006, 12:04 AM
Information I read - very long
Here is what I read from another site (lincolnsonline). I can provide a link if needed, I'll take the liberty to copy and paste - with credits.
OIL
Submitted by Kit Sullivan/ 12-16-04
Multi-Viscosity Is The Way To Go
There are two types of lubrication that motor oil gives to your engine: The first type is called a Hydro-Static Boundary Layer, and that simply means that the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine, while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating. When your engine is first started, this static layer of protection will give the engine adequate lubrication for a few minutes (5 or so) until the oil pump has the ability to create enough oil pressure to get the heated oil moving up into the upper parts of your motor.
At this point, the second type of lubrication takes over: The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer. That simply means oil that is moving around by way of the oil pump. With a single-grade oil, the heat from operation thins the oil that is clinging to the upper parts of the engine quickly, much more quickly than the oil in the pan. This reduces its viscosity, or ability to flow and causes the engine to lose its Hydro-Static Boundary Layer of lubrication. Unfortunately, the relatively thick single-grade 30-weight has not warmed up enough in the pan to be easily pumped up to the upper-engine before the static layer is depleted. So what you have is an engine that has lost its static lubrication, but is not receiving any adequate dynamic lubrication yet. This creates and abundance of wear and tear. This is why most engines from the 50's and 60's would be all used up at around 50,000-75,000 miles. That, and the high sulfur and phosphorous trace elements in the oil.
Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the dynamic layer of protection long before the static layer of protection is gone. Through the use of man-made additives called Viscosity Index Improvers (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature.
The operating temperature for motor oil is 150 degrees. This overlap of boundary layers of protection is what has enabled engines to go for 250,000-400,000 miles on a regular basis, along with much better refined oil. Basically, it has taken almost all of the wear and tear out of the warm-up phase of engine operation, which is where 75% of all internal engine wear comes from.
All is not perfect, however. The V.I Improvers are man-made additives and are VERY susceptible to the mechanical and very destructive shearing action of the engine. This shearing action actually tears apart the additive package, including the VI Improvers, after a certain amount of time. Driving habits, engine type and condition make an enormous difference in how long the additive package will function adequately, but 3 months-3,000 miles is a good rule of thumb for the typical city and highway driven vehicle. All city driving (stop and go, idling, etc...) will shorten the oils life dramatically by as much as 33%. Oil changes every 2,000 miles may not be excessive under those circumstances. On the other hand, mostly highway driving at relatively steady speeds on flat paved and dust-free roads is the best condition for your engine and its oil. This may allow you to increase the drain interval by as much as 50%.
The wider the range of viscosities on the oil, the less durable and resistant it is to Viscosity Index Breakdown. For example, 10W-30 oil does not have as much VI Improver as 5W-30, so there are fewer addit
OIL
Submitted by Kit Sullivan/ 12-16-04
Multi-Viscosity Is The Way To Go
There are two types of lubrication that motor oil gives to your engine: The first type is called a Hydro-Static Boundary Layer, and that simply means that the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine, while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating. When your engine is first started, this static layer of protection will give the engine adequate lubrication for a few minutes (5 or so) until the oil pump has the ability to create enough oil pressure to get the heated oil moving up into the upper parts of your motor.
At this point, the second type of lubrication takes over: The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer. That simply means oil that is moving around by way of the oil pump. With a single-grade oil, the heat from operation thins the oil that is clinging to the upper parts of the engine quickly, much more quickly than the oil in the pan. This reduces its viscosity, or ability to flow and causes the engine to lose its Hydro-Static Boundary Layer of lubrication. Unfortunately, the relatively thick single-grade 30-weight has not warmed up enough in the pan to be easily pumped up to the upper-engine before the static layer is depleted. So what you have is an engine that has lost its static lubrication, but is not receiving any adequate dynamic lubrication yet. This creates and abundance of wear and tear. This is why most engines from the 50's and 60's would be all used up at around 50,000-75,000 miles. That, and the high sulfur and phosphorous trace elements in the oil.
Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the dynamic layer of protection long before the static layer of protection is gone. Through the use of man-made additives called Viscosity Index Improvers (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature.
The operating temperature for motor oil is 150 degrees. This overlap of boundary layers of protection is what has enabled engines to go for 250,000-400,000 miles on a regular basis, along with much better refined oil. Basically, it has taken almost all of the wear and tear out of the warm-up phase of engine operation, which is where 75% of all internal engine wear comes from.
All is not perfect, however. The V.I Improvers are man-made additives and are VERY susceptible to the mechanical and very destructive shearing action of the engine. This shearing action actually tears apart the additive package, including the VI Improvers, after a certain amount of time. Driving habits, engine type and condition make an enormous difference in how long the additive package will function adequately, but 3 months-3,000 miles is a good rule of thumb for the typical city and highway driven vehicle. All city driving (stop and go, idling, etc...) will shorten the oils life dramatically by as much as 33%. Oil changes every 2,000 miles may not be excessive under those circumstances. On the other hand, mostly highway driving at relatively steady speeds on flat paved and dust-free roads is the best condition for your engine and its oil. This may allow you to increase the drain interval by as much as 50%.
The wider the range of viscosities on the oil, the less durable and resistant it is to Viscosity Index Breakdown. For example, 10W-30 oil does not have as much VI Improver as 5W-30, so there are fewer addit
#15
11-15-2006, 01:12 AM
RE: Information I read - very long
Wow.... that guy has alot of time on his hands...... however, i'm still not buying full synthetic oil...... just not worth the money.... perhaps if my nose was running money, i'd blow it on synthetic oil..haha
why is this such a big issue??? lol just change the effin oil in your effin car to an effin synthetic or keep the effin "dino" oil..... there is no effin way you will average 6 to 7 mpg better with synthetic oil. . . . besides, forum posters are not reliable info sources anyways. . . For all you guys know, I could be a 70 year old woman that doesnt own a blazer with nothing better to do with my time than get on here and talk about blazers. . . find me a press release from consumer reports or some unbiased source to prove which is better (i have no clue at this point... im so confused that i don't even wanna think about motor oil...). . . do not trust all advice (some is okay) that you read in forums online... someone (other than me because I now have a headache..lol) research and see if you can find an unbiased, reliable source that tells which is actually better, if they are not close to the same..... that big article (for all you know) could have been written by someone who works for a synthetic oil distibutor or something off the wall..... i dunno.... we need facts, not opinions now... because im sure everyone (like me) is now wondering which really is best. . . . WE NEED TO KNOW BEFORE ALL OF OUR MOTORS BLOW UP!!!!!!!! [:-]
Here ya go!!!!!
SYNTHETIC OIL INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA
Advantages
The benefits for synthetic motor oils include:
-Better low temperature viscosity performance.
-Better high temperature viscosity performance.
-Decreased evaporative loss
-Reduced friction
-Reduced engine wear
-Improved fuel efficiency
-Chemical stability
-Resistance to oil sludge problems
-Some synthetic motor oil producers offer extended drain intervals
Disadvantages
The disadvantages of synthetic motor oils include:
-Initial cost
-Potential oil seal problems - if the oil does not contain sufficient seal conditioners.
-Potential decomposition problems in certain chemical environments
-Potential stress cracking of plastic componentry like POM (polyoxymethylene) in the presence of PAO's.
-Initial cost may be mitigated by extended change intervals, but those need to be confirmed by oil analysis for each particular user.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil#Advantages
I want to know more.... HEll, I might switch to synthetic if it will keep my car from exploding the next time I drive it... im due for an oil change this weekend..... I hope the killer dino oil doesnt eat my family when I drain it....
BTW... If you have been using conventional oil for a long time... synthetics have been proven to shrink piston rings and gaskets causing a sh*tload of trouble.... so by the looks of things, you should use one or the other from the start and not switch. . neither will harm your vehicle in the long run unless you alternate oils. so use one or the other from the start.... don't change. . .
why is this such a big issue??? lol just change the effin oil in your effin car to an effin synthetic or keep the effin "dino" oil..... there is no effin way you will average 6 to 7 mpg better with synthetic oil. . . . besides, forum posters are not reliable info sources anyways. . . For all you guys know, I could be a 70 year old woman that doesnt own a blazer with nothing better to do with my time than get on here and talk about blazers. . . find me a press release from consumer reports or some unbiased source to prove which is better (i have no clue at this point... im so confused that i don't even wanna think about motor oil...). . . do not trust all advice (some is okay) that you read in forums online... someone (other than me because I now have a headache..lol) research and see if you can find an unbiased, reliable source that tells which is actually better, if they are not close to the same..... that big article (for all you know) could have been written by someone who works for a synthetic oil distibutor or something off the wall..... i dunno.... we need facts, not opinions now... because im sure everyone (like me) is now wondering which really is best. . . . WE NEED TO KNOW BEFORE ALL OF OUR MOTORS BLOW UP!!!!!!!! [:-]
Here ya go!!!!!
SYNTHETIC OIL INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA
Advantages
The benefits for synthetic motor oils include:
-Better low temperature viscosity performance.
-Better high temperature viscosity performance.
-Decreased evaporative loss
-Reduced friction
-Reduced engine wear
-Improved fuel efficiency
-Chemical stability
-Resistance to oil sludge problems
-Some synthetic motor oil producers offer extended drain intervals
Disadvantages
The disadvantages of synthetic motor oils include:
-Initial cost
-Potential oil seal problems - if the oil does not contain sufficient seal conditioners.
-Potential decomposition problems in certain chemical environments
-Potential stress cracking of plastic componentry like POM (polyoxymethylene) in the presence of PAO's.
-Initial cost may be mitigated by extended change intervals, but those need to be confirmed by oil analysis for each particular user.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil#Advantages
I want to know more.... HEll, I might switch to synthetic if it will keep my car from exploding the next time I drive it... im due for an oil change this weekend..... I hope the killer dino oil doesnt eat my family when I drain it....
BTW... If you have been using conventional oil for a long time... synthetics have been proven to shrink piston rings and gaskets causing a sh*tload of trouble.... so by the looks of things, you should use one or the other from the start and not switch. . neither will harm your vehicle in the long run unless you alternate oils. so use one or the other from the start.... don't change. . .
#16
11-15-2006, 01:36 AM
RE: Information I read - very long
"I had a friend (he passed away on mothers day this year... 19 years old..... ) who blew 2 motors in a turboed Evo 8..... mechanic said it was due to the synthetic oil breaking down."
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. However, I can guarantee you that synthetic oil breaks down much, MUCH later than standard petroleum oil in extreme conditions. This is true in high load situations, in high temperature situations, and in just about every other situation you can dream up. Therefore, if the motors failed with synthetic, they would have probably failed earlier with petro oil in them. It absolutely was NOT due to his using synthetic oil. So that example is meaningless.
Many mechanics have not studied synthetic oil and frankly don't know much about its qualities. I have no way of knowing whether that mechanic knows his butt from a hole in the ground in terms of synthetics. Personally, I've been following their development since the late 70's.
As I stated in an earlier post, conventional oil is really well made stuff, and it's much better than it was 20 years ago. No one goes wrong using any major brand of oil - unless they have a turbocharged car or truck, in which case my opinion (and that of many others) is that running anything other than synthetic oil is foolish. Synthetic oil holds up better and maintains its lubricating qualities and viscosity much better under extreme conditions. Maybe Joe Driver will never experience those xtreme conditions. OTOH, maybe he'll blow a radiator hose in a place where you can't pull over - or lose oil pressure and not notice it - and if he is running synthetic oil, it may save his motor.
In fact, none of us can really speak for another person in saying synthetic oil doesn't make sense for THEM. It may not make sense for Joe Driver, given his perferences, budget and beliefs. For me, it does. I want the safety margin, and I'm willing to pay for it. But I buy the oil as cheap as possible and run it for 10,000 miles between changes, with filter changes at 3,000 mile intervals.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. However, I can guarantee you that synthetic oil breaks down much, MUCH later than standard petroleum oil in extreme conditions. This is true in high load situations, in high temperature situations, and in just about every other situation you can dream up. Therefore, if the motors failed with synthetic, they would have probably failed earlier with petro oil in them. It absolutely was NOT due to his using synthetic oil. So that example is meaningless.
Many mechanics have not studied synthetic oil and frankly don't know much about its qualities. I have no way of knowing whether that mechanic knows his butt from a hole in the ground in terms of synthetics. Personally, I've been following their development since the late 70's.
As I stated in an earlier post, conventional oil is really well made stuff, and it's much better than it was 20 years ago. No one goes wrong using any major brand of oil - unless they have a turbocharged car or truck, in which case my opinion (and that of many others) is that running anything other than synthetic oil is foolish. Synthetic oil holds up better and maintains its lubricating qualities and viscosity much better under extreme conditions. Maybe Joe Driver will never experience those xtreme conditions. OTOH, maybe he'll blow a radiator hose in a place where you can't pull over - or lose oil pressure and not notice it - and if he is running synthetic oil, it may save his motor.
In fact, none of us can really speak for another person in saying synthetic oil doesn't make sense for THEM. It may not make sense for Joe Driver, given his perferences, budget and beliefs. For me, it does. I want the safety margin, and I'm willing to pay for it. But I buy the oil as cheap as possible and run it for 10,000 miles between changes, with filter changes at 3,000 mile intervals.
#17
11-15-2006, 01:42 AM
RE: Information I read - very long
But I buy the oil as cheap as possible and run it for 10,000 miles between changes, with filter changes at 3,000 mile intervals.
#18
11-15-2006, 01:58 AM
RE: Information I read - very long
Actually, switching between oils doesn't hurt anything.
The only potential danger in switching oils is if an engine is heavily sludged and you put synthetic in. Since synthetic is very detergent, there is a danger of breaking loose crud and plugging oil passages. Therefore, I don't recommend changing to synthetic in engines with heavy deposits. Aside from that situation, there's no danger to a motor whatsoever.
I don't know where this statement in an earlier post came from: "synthetics have been proven to shrink piston rings and gaskets causing a sh*tload of trouble...". Piston rings are metal and don't shrink, so that is complete nonsense. As for the gaskets, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, back in the early days of synthetic formulations synthetics sometimes lacked certain additives which causes seals to swell in the same way conventional oil does. At that time (1950's or so) that statement might hae been true. it hasn't been true for more than 20 years. Wherever that comment came from, it was based on information that's about two generations out of date.
Changing the other direction doesn't hurt anything. You can go from synthetic to conventional oil at any time. no problem, no penalty, no damage, no heartburn.
And I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be discussed, provided that the people in the discussion stick to facts and documented information. there are plenty of people out there who don't know much about synthetic oil and have questions about it.
And yes, changing filters at 3,000 mile intervals is a highly complex and challenging process:
1) Drive 3000 miles
2) Remove old filter
3) Install new filter
4) Add 1 quart of oil
5) Drive away
It doesn't hurt a thing that this process adds a fresh quart of oil to the crankcase.
The only potential danger in switching oils is if an engine is heavily sludged and you put synthetic in. Since synthetic is very detergent, there is a danger of breaking loose crud and plugging oil passages. Therefore, I don't recommend changing to synthetic in engines with heavy deposits. Aside from that situation, there's no danger to a motor whatsoever.
I don't know where this statement in an earlier post came from: "synthetics have been proven to shrink piston rings and gaskets causing a sh*tload of trouble...". Piston rings are metal and don't shrink, so that is complete nonsense. As for the gaskets, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, back in the early days of synthetic formulations synthetics sometimes lacked certain additives which causes seals to swell in the same way conventional oil does. At that time (1950's or so) that statement might hae been true. it hasn't been true for more than 20 years. Wherever that comment came from, it was based on information that's about two generations out of date.
Changing the other direction doesn't hurt anything. You can go from synthetic to conventional oil at any time. no problem, no penalty, no damage, no heartburn.
And I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be discussed, provided that the people in the discussion stick to facts and documented information. there are plenty of people out there who don't know much about synthetic oil and have questions about it.
And yes, changing filters at 3,000 mile intervals is a highly complex and challenging process:
1) Drive 3000 miles
2) Remove old filter
3) Install new filter
4) Add 1 quart of oil
5) Drive away
It doesn't hurt a thing that this process adds a fresh quart of oil to the crankcase.
#19
11-15-2006, 02:05 AM
RE: Information I read - very long
that info came from castrol's website. . . . why is this a f*ckin argument... if you have nothing better to do than prove me wrong... then ill just end it...you're right!
happy now? can we end the nonsense? im done... if you like it thats cool... personally i don't but obivously i don't have the experience nor am I smart enoughto understan the complexities of synthetic oils.... you act like I insulted your mother or somethin.... i don't enjoy synthetic... and guess what? my truck runs fine.. I get 24mpg on conventional oil... im happy... can't we all just get along?
SYNTHETIC RULES!!!!!!!!!!
happy now? can we end the nonsense? im done... if you like it thats cool... personally i don't but obivously i don't have the experience nor am I smart enoughto understan the complexities of synthetic oils.... you act like I insulted your mother or somethin.... i don't enjoy synthetic... and guess what? my truck runs fine.. I get 24mpg on conventional oil... im happy... can't we all just get along?
SYNTHETIC RULES!!!!!!!!!!
