Last night I took apart the dash just to investigate and consider my options. The best place for the crossovers seems to be right underneath where the tape deck is in the center console. It's going to be a real tight fit once all the wires are connected but I think I can get it to work. I was thinking about removing the tape deck altogether since it will not work with the HU. It just takes up space. Would replacing it with a 7 band EQ be practical/worthwhile?

You're right, running lines from the amp to the tweeter mounts doesn't seem that tough after removing the dash. Running the mid lines up and through the rubber grommets in the door will prove to be a lot more difficult I think. If I find a way to do that, can I just leave the stock wiring in place, cap the ends, and leave the other ends connected to the HU?

I've gotten a little overzealous with thoughts of sub/sub amp combinations lol. I've been doing a lot of research and this forum has helped a lot. So I will probably be asking about that next.

 

With the processing power that's inherently built into most HU's today that 7 band EQ is generally worthless. Removing the tape deck wouldn't be a bad idea, but perhaps something more appealing or useful could be put in it's place. When I was in high school a class mate in my electronics class built what was basically a simple spectrum analyzer (LED's lined up side by side in columns, each column represents a different frequency, and they light up from the bottom up with the varying amount of signal strength or ouput for each one). He mounted them all in a plastic panel that filled the hole in the dash of his '92 Chevy truck where the factory HU controller went. Looked neater than hell, I found a pic similar to it and attached it below. Anyway, the point is there's something you can do that's either more useful or more appealing than the EQ.




Yes, once you've got your own wire into the door the factory wires can be capped/taped/snubbed or otherwise left unused. There's definitely no problem with doing that at all.


Overzealous, about sub setups, psssshh, that never happens, lol. It's the number one obsession and the FIRST THING almost everyone thinks about when they talk about or consider anything audio related in a car when the fact is the highs should be the first thought. Subs play such a small range of frequencies in comparison to the highs yet the majority of people always leave them until last. You on the other hand, with this build have done it the other way around and that's a good thing. I think and am theorizing by your responses about your highs, the realization of overzealous thoughts on the subs, and other such comments that you've noticed that for yourself. Without even having the installation completely finished on the highs, you're seeing how much the installation matters on them, how much of a difference it makes when the highs are done right, and how the importance of the sub stage isn't all that it was cracked up to be.

Of course I could be way off base, and I have a tendency to be fairly often, lol. My point in pointing that out is that it's kinda neat and fun to see when a person starts to realize that time, money and effort focused into the right areas first can make a dramatic difference. Sometimes enough so that it can change one's decision making paradigm without them knowing it.

All that sappy crap aside, you know that you can get help with any question you ask, so whenever you're ready just ask.

 

Hello again!

Ok so after some really slow progress I finally wired up my components/amp correctly. Everything still needs to be dialed in but I'm happy with the way it sounds so far. I've currently got the tweeters wired to -3db on the crossovers, mounted facing toward me in the stock locations. I grounded the amp to a bolt that seems to go to the frame inside the center console and I ended up running the power line through the same grommet the antenna line goes through. At first I was a little worried about possible interference with the radio, but if there is any, my ears can't detect it. I still need to install the 6x9s and sound deadening in the rear. I'll be posting some pics soon.

When setting the gains on the amp, I know it's ideal to have everything flat on the HU (no loudness, EQ, HPF) but if I choose to apply loudness and EQ later, I'm going to get some clipping, so wouldn't I want to set the HU prior to setting the amp's gains? I will not be using any bass boost, but I do like the way the loudness effects the sound and would like to apply a slight EQ (This all may change once subs are installed). Also, would pink noise be the way to go when tuning?

 

Pink noise is only useful when tuning using an RTA. Without that kind of equipment the best thing to use is a good selection of your favorite music (preferably on CD) and your ears. Yes, if you plan on using the loudness, filters, etc. you should have as much of it set as possible before setting the gains. In an ideal system the EQ would be flat and sound perfect but that just doesn't typically exist. In my van the EQ is flat but the loudness is turned on, for example.

If your HU has time alignment that's the very first thing to set since it's a constant. The distance the speakers are from you the listener never changes so it's the one thing that can universally always be set, just measure from the headrest to the speakers.

After that I typically go and turn the gain up a bit, usually more than it needs to be turned up. I do that to test and listen for problems with distortion and such while doing the next step. Drop in the first of your music and turn it up to a regular listening level first. Start making your adjustments at this point, one song at a time and realize you may have to go back and forth from one back to a previous one after making an adjustment to be sure it was a well rounded move. This will take some time so be sure you have allotted yourself the time to do it right.

Once you're satisfied with how they sound crank it up until you hear distortion. In most cases the bass will begin to distort before anything else. This is where you go in and set the HPF crossover. Start with the lowest setting then turn it back up, next setting, turn it up, etc. until you can get the output you want without the bass distorting or you reach distortion at higher frequencies. If all the bass is gone and you don't have a sub then you'll have to turn the HPF back down to get some bass back obviously. Also while you're on this step take time to be sure the music sounds as good at high volumes as it did at a regular listening level. It's amazing how a problem can show itself at high volumes that wasn't apparent at regular listening levels.

At that point it's a balancing act between how loud you want it to get without distortion and how much bass response you want from the speakers, compromise. When you add a sub it won't be that big of a deal because the sub can pick up where the speakers leave off.

That's a lot of crap to read through but the important thing is to go ahead and set everything you can to get it to sound the way you want it to first. Then you can go and set the gains because you're right, if you make an adjustment after setting the gain you'll have to (or should) go back and readjust the gain anyway.

 

Thanks for the info! I went ahead and ordered a pair of Sundown SA-10 D4s. It was kind of a spur of the moment decision but I couldn't pass up the black Friday deal. Based on what I've read and heard about them, I don't think I'll be disappointed. I almost bought a Sundown amp as well but chickened out because I didn't feel like spending any more money.

So now I'm faced with a decision on an amp that will be a good match for the SA-10s and what type of enclosure to buy/build. I'm not sure if I want to go ported or sealed. I'm looking for hard hitting kicks and really tight response (not muddy) while trying to keep the size of the enclosure to a minimum (if possible). I listen to mostly hard rock/metal/classic rock and some electronic stuff as well.

Looks like I've got more reading to do. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!

 

Any reputable brand amp that can deliver at least 1000wrms into 1 ohm will be plenty sufficient. There's no such thing as underpowering a speaker and if you can find one that's fairly affordable it doesn't hurt to have a little extra headroom either. I've had good experiences with the PPI amps lately. They're a very budget oriented brand but the performance has been spectacular on them. Something like the PPI BK1300 would be a great match for them and for under $200 shipped to your door at that.

I listen to a lot of the same kind of music and have never been let down by a ported enclosure. However, everyone has their own preferences and hear things differently. If space is a large concern sealed will definitely keep the enclosure size down. However, ported is a better alignment for the SA series in general and if it's properly built and designed will sound just as good with no issues keeping up with the faster drums and bass guitars of rock. Ported enclosures can sound muddy or undefined but that's a problem with the design and incorrect alignment, not the enclosure type itself. Figure out the maximum amount of space you're willing to give up to the enclosure and that will decide what enclosure you're going with.

lol, there's always more to read, always more to learn. It's an incredibly deep and sophisticated hobby. How difficult it is exponentially proportional to just how perfect a person wants it to be. The same can be said about how expensive it can be as well.

 

That PPI amp was actually one of the ones I was looking at. 1300W @ 1ohm sounds perfect and it's at a good price point. The only issue I see with it is the maximum input gauge of 4AWG. I guess I figured on running 0/1 gauge to be safe. Does it matter that I plan on using a dedicated power cell in the future? I'm sure I'd be able to get away with 4AWG, at least for now. I am using the stock electrical and 1200-1300W seems like the boarder line. I do plan on doing a big 3 upgrade before hooking these up.

 

Go ahead and run 1/0 wire so you've got it there for future upgrades. You can get a pair of THESE to CLEANLY adapt the 1/0 into the 4 awg terminals. Then in the future you can take them off and connect whatever you want. I'm not a big fan of using a bunch of adapters and crap to piece something together but these don't look bad at all, aren't real expensive, and are easy to put on and remove.

Every vehicle is different, but typically 1kw or so is about the limit for most stock electrical systems. Some do better, some do worse but it's definitely the point where a person needs to look at some upgrades. I recommend doing the BIG 3 no matter what you're planning on adding to a vehicles electrical load. Stock grounds suck and the charging wire isn't great either and is sized just large enough for the regular load not a large, sustained one. Do the BIG 3 at a minimum and watch your voltage drop, preferably at the amp power terminals. Stinger makes a great little volt meter that works great for that. If the drop isn't bad at all then don't worry about anything until you upgrade in the future.

 

Ok will do. Yea those reducers look like they would do the trick. A Big 3 is definitely in order. I haven't bought a wiring kit yet but I'm hoping I'll have enough extra 1/0 to use for a Big 3. Hopefully 5ft or so will do.

I've got the amp narrowed down to the PPI BK1300 and this RE Audio CTX-4200.1 (CTX42001) Monoblock Full Digital Amplifier. Same price but the RE puts out 1500W @ 1ohm giving it even more overhead. Would you recommend that one over the PPI?

 

I honestly have had no personal experience with the RE amps. I do know that RE Audio bought USAmps which used to be a major player back in the day making some of the most memorable amps in the old school competition scene. After RE bought them some major changes happened and they just aren't what they were before.

I would imagine that the RE amps are built in the same build house, or at least in the same country as the majority of other amps on the market. All I'm saying by that comment is that like the PPI, or SoundStream, even the Focal Solid series amps, or pretty much most of them out there you're not going to go wrong buying and using it as long as it's coming from a reputable brand. You would have to spend a pretty good amount more to get one that is much more remarkable than these. Even then the differences will not be audible, only measurable and with very expensive equipment that none of us own.

The RE does have 1/0 inputs, so you wouldn't need to spend the extra money on adapters. That to me is an advantage over the PPI in your case.