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4.3L Vortec Getting a Rebuild

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  #41  
Old 01-19-2022, 05:47 PM
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I noticed this too, all of the exhaust seals are red and the intake seals are black. Not sure if this is how it comes or what. The pushrod is indeed bent, I also noticed one spot had a weird mark in it.

 
  #42  
Old 01-19-2022, 06:35 PM
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Okay and this one brings it home. Looking at the piston with a light on it you can see the mark on it that lines up with the mark on the valve above. I think it's safe to say we all know what happened here now, it's just how?
 
  #43  
Old 01-19-2022, 08:37 PM
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Valve spring couldn't hold valve closed (for whatever reason - high rpm, or weak spring, or something you dropped under the valve face) and lifter pumped up to take up the extra clearance. This made the valve open far enough to smack the piston and bend it, bend the pushrod, and squash the valve seal. Marks on pushrod are from rubbing after being bent.

I would take the lifter out and inspect it for any damage. I suppose it could also be the original cause of the problem.

These are the only 4 situations i can see that would cause what you are observing.

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever participated in!
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 01-19-2022 at 08:44 PM.
  #44  
Old 01-19-2022, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMyer
Valve spring couldn't hold valve closed (for whatever reason - high rpm, or weak spring, or something you dropped under the valve face) and lifter pumped up to take up the extra clearance. This made the valve open far enough to smack the piston and bend it, bend the pushrod, and squash the valve seal. Marks on pushrod are from rubbing after being bent.

I would take the lifter out and inspect it for any damage. I suppose it could also be the original cause of the problem.

These are the only 4 situations i can see that would cause what you are observing.

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever participated in!
This is fascinating.

Les, do you think the piston and cylinder will be OK?
 
  #45  
Old 01-20-2022, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LesMyer
Valve spring couldn't hold valve closed (for whatever reason - high rpm, or weak spring, or something you dropped under the valve face) and lifter pumped up to take up the extra clearance. This made the valve open far enough to smack the piston and bend it, bend the pushrod, and squash the valve seal. Marks on pushrod are from rubbing after being bent.

I would take the lifter out and inspect it for any damage. I suppose it could also be the original cause of the problem.

These are the only 4 situations i can see that would cause what you are observing.

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever participated in!
just thought of a fifth situation - valve sticking in valve guide, preventing it from closing.

Piston/cylinder doesn't look so bad to me in your photo.

What about the lifter?
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 01-20-2022 at 05:52 AM.
  #46  
Old 01-20-2022, 01:31 PM
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Okay that makes me glad you think the piston is ok too. I thought of the valve sticking too especially because its an exhaust valve but then I used a redneck method of checking the valve by tieing some wire in a loop through the intake bolt hole then with a block of wood on the top of the valve I stuck a breaker bar through the loop and pushed the valve down using that leverage. It wasn't the easiest but it seems the valve would move down and back up pretty uniformly, didn't seem to get stuck anywhere, but I'm also not totally certain I opened the valve up completely. I need to check another one just to make sure it doesn't feel any different. I took out the lifter and nothing looks wrong with it at first glance. I don't really know how to test if it's collapsed, I push down on the top of it or what?
 
  #47  
Old 01-20-2022, 02:12 PM
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It's more of a visual check the roller on the lifter and make sure the wire clip is in place for the piston. Collapsed lifter could not have caused your problem. Photo please!
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 01-20-2022 at 02:15 PM.
  #48  
Old 01-20-2022, 02:14 PM
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I have advocated for in vehicle cylinder repair if possible from the start of your thread and you and Les are doing a fine job walking through this. My only caution is that if the piston impact was significant enough it can cause damage to the piston/wrist pin/rod/bearing. That's hard to asses, especially from the top. If you have any other reason to drop the oil pan you can at least inspect from below. Did the engine develop any rod knock after the problems started?

The impact damage looks minimal as you have all said and the likely hood of enough damage to cause a catastrophic failure later is probably low. You will have to asses how much risk you are willing to take. If it was me and this vehicle did not have to be ultra reliable (pregnant wife driving long distances alone at night,...) I would repair it and keep going but I love fixing old stuff and not throwing anything away. Others always want new, warranties, etc.

George
 
  #49  
Old 01-20-2022, 02:25 PM
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Here's the redneck way to take off the valve spring. You're going to like this one!!!

Get a 5/8 or 3/4 deep socket (whatever fits the retainer good with the hex/12 point side) and put it on top of the valve spring retainer over the valve stem tip. Hold the valve spring between your palm and 2 fingers (pinky side). Hold the socket in place with the same hand but the thumb and 2 fingers (index finger side). Gloves are your friend but not truly necessary. Now whack the socket with a big ****ing hammer (dead blow if you have one). Keepers are now under the socket and you can take the valve spring and valve out for inspection. If keepers don't come out first time, put socket back on and hit it again. If you have held on to the spring with your palm and kept the socket in place, it will be in your hand and the keepers hopefully are still under the socket. Don't do this where the keepers can jump and get lost! Once you have the spring off, note how much wiggle you can do back and forth (side to side) with the valve to check the valve guide clearance. Video please.

Anyone else ever done this? You can take 16 valve springs off in about a minute.

If the valve doesn't want to come out because the stem is bent, just spin it to see where is bent and tap with hammer gently to straighten. (Don't pound it out with a screwdriver and hammer or something, even if it is tempting to do so).

If valve guide and valve seat are OK (and intake valve also checks out OK), please source a new valve, a new valve spring, 2 new split keepers, a new pushrod, valve stem seals for both intake and exhaust on that cylinder, some valve lapping compound, and some machinist blue - along with gaskets to put back together. At some point before you are done you will need a valve spring compressor. Rock Auto sells the individual pieces if you can't get them locally without buying sets of things.
 

Last edited by LesMyer; 01-20-2022 at 04:20 PM.
  #50  
Old 01-20-2022, 06:23 PM
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Alright, I checked out the lifter, I couldn't see anything wrong with it again, pictures attached. I just tried that method of removing the valve and it did not work for me lol, I'm just going to go get a valve spring compressor here as you said I will need one anyway. If I only have to get those parts you said to get back on the road though it shouldn't be too bad at all! Just time-consuming. George, I have every reason to drop the oil pan, leaking rear main seal, and a cracked oil pan. It would be really nice to get those two things fixed up now too, that's why I'm thinking about just pulling the engine here in the next few days after I figure out what happened. I'm thinking there's no way I'm getting the oil pan out without dropping my front axle while it's in the truck, and I have a bonus I can go work inside once I pull the engine, and it would make it a lot easier to pull the other head off too and at least replace the head gasket for both sides while I'm in here. I don't believe it developed rod knock I think I would have picked that up right away.


 


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