Thanks for the reply =)

I had initially tried measuring out the distance but still couldn't locate it underneath, but then again, I get claustrophobic underneath small spaces, so I couldn't stay down under there long (the clearance is quite low on my Blazer, I realized)

I ended up just rotating the seat with the Torx Bolt still on and cleaning underneath and around as best I could with a handl'd scrub brush and some enzyme cleaner -since then, the smell has gone away as best as I can tell and even in the high heat it doesn't come back, so I'm pretty happy =)

When I get some more time and money, I'm going to try the method you recommended because I would like to clean it thoroughly in the future, before I sell it. I still feel like it's only 95% clean lol

Thanks again for all the help and replies, guys =)

 

hello they make some twist style sockets that are killer for removing this kind of problem i think they sell them at sears i got mine from snap on if bolt is still good use a air impact wrench and tork bit work it back and forth till it comes out. thanks and good luck

 

Seatbelt bolt technical specs needed
===

I'm trying to find out some specific information about GM seat belt bolts. Primarily the bolts used to mount the belt reels under the back seat. I think they are 12mm bolts. They take either a T47 or T50 torx bit, depending on the year. The same bolt is used for the upper reel mount in the back, and I think the front seatbelt mounts that go into the floor at the 'hump'.

Here's what I'm trying to find out:

What is the true size? Are they 12mm or are they an off-breed metric that's actually SAE?

Grade 2, 5 or 8?

What does the factory say about re-using them. It seems the threads become damaged upon removal. I proved this to myself yesterday, by taking off the mount for the upper reel in the back BEFORE I took out the torx bolt. The exposed threads at the end ot the bolt were fine until they passed through the captured nut on the mount. To me, if the threads are damaged coming out, it could mean additional damage going back in PLUS there is apparent damage to the threads of the captured nut, as well. The factory manual for my 89 Olds 88 does not address re-using of these bolts.

Please, only answers that are factory or dealership-verified unless you have metalurgical &/or engineering knowledge to share - I can easily come up with 'conspiracy theories' on my own & I have a friend who gladly supplies me with 'just re-use it with a bunch of loctite, don't sweat the same stuff' advice whenever he gets the chance.

Thanks, in advance.

Later,

GeoD


<#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyone ever taken a seatbelt reel assembly apart?
===

The title says it all...

"Anyone ever taken a seatbelt reel assembly apart?"

You know, the take-up reel that has the plastic cover that says "Do Not Remove", like under the back seat or on the rear window ledge.

If not, I'm going to take on the adventure and try to swap out the belts in a back seat take-up reel. I'll take pictures for a injury-by-injury re-telling, if it's exciting.

Later,

GeoD

<#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm in the process of replacing the musty-smelling cloth interior in my '89 Olds '88' with an immaculate leather interior from a Buick Park Ave. It being dark blue and the Olds having a grey interior, I've pulled everything from the Buick's body pan up, seat belts included.

Like your Blazer, it has torx bolts that go through the body pan so the end of the bolt is exposed. In the sedans, it's the rear seat belt mounting bolts located under the back seats. One of the seat belts is still in the Buick. On the first attempt, I only had a long 3/8" Snap-On ratchet with me and was afraid of braking it, (have broken the ratchet mechanism before overloading it). On the second trip to the wrecking yard, I also brought a brand new torx bit and my impact driver, (the kind you hit with a hammer). I hit it a half dozen times, and when I looked at the torx bit, I had rotationally bent the splines of the bit! I'm trying to determine the grade of these cheesy torx bolts right now, as I plan the next foray to the U-Pull-It yard.

Here's a few things to add to the thread re: seat belt torx bolts.

- I can't determine if they are, in fact, re-usable after removal. The factory Olds manual doesn't address it, and I've found nothing on the Internet about the subject. The reason I bring this up is I had a chance to take out the upper seat belt reel mounting brackets in my Olds yesterday. This bracket hold the captured nut the torx bolt screws into. If gave me a chance to thoroughly inspect the thread of the torx bolt protruding through the captured nut. They were pristine. Then I removed the torx bolt. There is obvious damage to the threads at the end of the bolt and to the captured nut. This is what makes question the re-usability of the torx bolts.

- I see a lot of people saying they will replace the torx bolt with a grade 8 bolt because it is stronger. I cautioned that unless it turns out the torx bolts are also grade 8. There may well be a reason GM uses the specific grade of the torx bolt. I do not know, yet. (here's one of the better discussions of grade 5 vs 8, I've read recently, (dub.dub.dub.projectsamurai.com/index.php?topic=4.0). Do notice that he makes the qualified statement, "you should not use grade 8’s because they are more brittle than grade 5’s is not a true statement in most applications." The important would is 'most'. I relate this question to same reason I read recently about why seat belts are attached to the body pan and NOT to the frame. The reason given is the human body should not be between the body and the seat belts at impact. Attaching the seat belts to the body pan allows the human body to move WITH the body in the event the body separates from the frame. Attaching the belts to the frame would create a secondary impact scenario where the human body SHARES a nylon web of seat belts with the auto body, allowing the auto body to crush the human body in the event the body separates from the frame.

Perhaps seat belt/auto designers want something less than a grade 8 to secure the seat belts for a similar reason, I just don't know, and haven't found out, yet.

- I found a tool designed specifically for removal of these damn torx bits. It is made by Owatonna Tool Co., (OTC). As I recall from many years ago, they make or have made, in the past, dealership specialty tool kits & factory specialty tools. The tool has a torx bit and automatic centering device combined. Here's the info for a search:

GM Seat Belt Bolt Removal Tool OTC-5901

I found it at eToolcart for less than $25, but I'm sure it's elsewhere. Never seen it at a parts store, though.

- I mentioned I bought a new bit before the second foray to the 'yard'. It is a T47. I had an older torx bit with a large hex base, I think 3/8". Unfortunately I lost it during the 'second foray'. It may well have been a T50. I didn't remember this until a moment ago, but with the older bit, I could hit it with a hammer and it would 'bite' into the torx bolt, making removal easier. When I went to the parts store the other day, I handed them the old bit and said, "I need another". It is likely the less than experienced dimwit brought me a T47 instead of a T50, because the T47 does not bite into the bolts, and it is extremely easy for it to ride up in the torx bolt. THIS could explain a lot.

- I haven't looked into the aircraft tool recommended, but one thing an 'impact' or hammer drill, be a manual type, air or electric is there is a coordinated impact with the rotation of the bolt, this drives the socket or bit onto or into the bolt you are trying to remove, this lessens the chance of goobering it up.

- GM liberally coats the seat belt bolts with blue loctite, that and the thread destruction adds to difficulties removing these bolts.

I'll add any further info I learn to the thread.


Later,

GeoD

 

I have never had a problem with reusing them in any of my vehicles. But then again, they have never been really damaged once removed. A bit of wear on the threads that were protruding through the other side of the captive fastener, yes, but no damage that I would throw the bolts away or even worry about the captive fastener. If the damage is bad enough to have you wonder, the peace of mind in replacing them may make you sleep better...

From the project samurai link (good article - read it before)... Direct quote:
I think you will find that use of 'most' was nothing more than a disclaimer.

With a seat belt anchor, you have no real wear or repeated high stressing of the connection. It is meant to withstand the force of the driver hitting the seat belt in the event of a crash. The 'most' that the author is speaking of covers this case. If you wanted to really dig deep into it, you could try finding information about bolt impact load strengths, but I would guess that you would find that gr.8 bolts are still stronger than gr.5.

I am a mechanical engineer so I feel qualified to answer your post, but you will only succeed in restricting your replies by limiting information from automotive designers, etc.

I would NOT recommend the disassembly of the seat belt retractor. I have done it before as part of a firefighting course. Suffice to say that there are a lot of ways to take them apart and a lot of small parts. They don't always go back together properly. If you are already fretting over the bolts that hold the things down, why would you mess with the retractors? They are very important in the event of a crash as they lock to hold you back in the seat. If you want to replace the belts, replace the retractor/belt assembly as a whole.

 

I was in a hurry when I made my post on 7-20, and accidentally included copies of previous posts I had made elsewhere, in my search for info. I had INTENDED to begin my post here with "I'm in the process.." Sorry for the eff-up.

I haven't found anything more out about the torx bolts, I'm still trying to find something about the unusual coding on the top of the bolt. I have drilled the heads off of two bolts. One on my drill press, and one at the wrecking yard. They are not grade 8 bolts, they drilled too dang easy.

Re: the seat belt reels. I dissembled and switched belts in a reel yesterday, and found them to be simpler to do than I imagined. You have to index positions and reference orientation of the parts, but other than that, it's actually very simple. You can't actually mess with anything that impares the function of the belt other the retracting spring - if you get that wrong, it either won't retract all the way, or it snaps back a bit faster. The way the thing is built, you can only pre-wind the spring tension in half rotations. After I successfully got it back together and working correctly, I took it apart several more times, under-winding and over-winding the spring, just to see what would happen. Not much, and it still worked fine. I documented everything in photos, and will be posting a how-to in the next week or so. I'll post a link here.

Re: "you will only succeed in restricting your replies by limiting information from automotive designers, etc". The statement about wanting dealership/factory info was in the post I had inadvertently included - it was intended for a forum where there is both dealership/factory guys, and 'others' who have a free-ranging tendency to pass on urban myths and other assorted crap - it was intended for anyone on here. I appreciate an engineer replying.

Later,


GeoD

 

I have the same problem... snapped one torx... bent a better one (snap-on) and that was after the pb blaster...was thinking.... how about grinding off the bolt threads sticking through underneath then pb again....and then going back to the 2 foot breaker bar (with another new torx)? cant heat it up... the darn plastic gas tank thingy is right next to it!

 

The simplest way to get the bolt itself out is to drill it out from the top. Use cutting oil and SHARP bits. Start with a small bit and work up. When you get to a size large enough that it start to hit the prongs of the torz, watch out - I caught a bit on them at the wrecking yard, and snapped the bit in a split second.

If you picked the right size bit at the beginning, you should be able to cut away the prongs of the torx. Doing this before you start with a small bit may make it easier later.

If you're in a situation where you could cut the head off the torz with an air tool, (ie, no carpet or old carpet & not worried about where the sparks may fly). I have a air panel cutting tool that uses a 3" fiber disk that makes short work of it.

Once you get the head off, and get everything out of the way, then center punch and drill the rest of the bolt out of the threads.

I ended up doing that with a seat belt bolt in the body pan of my car. I didn't worry about buggering the threads since I replaced the dang torx bolt with a SAE thread bolt and a washer and nylok nut on the bottom side.

Taking it apart the next time will be easy.

Later,

GeoD

 

Hey! Its amusing this story come up just 4 days after having to install new belts in a friends blazer last weekend-Those were a ***** and I had the same problem with my supposededly impact T-50... Ended up using a torch and PB! Peeled away the carpet first and removed the plastic adjacent as well before heating that area! Those suckers are IN there